From Self-Hatred to Self-Worth: The Nervous System Shift That Changes Everything

In this week's episode I’m joined by Ramona Kossowan — Gentle Trauma Release Practitioner, fitness professional, and food relationship coach — who shares her deeply personal journey from self-hatred to self-worth.

Together, we unpack how trauma, life experiences, and long-held survival patterns shape the way we feel about ourselves….often without us even realising it.

✨ What We Explore

In this powerful conversation, we dive into:

•  How self-hatred can form quietly beneath the surface 
•  The impact of childhood experiences, environments, and emotional safety 
•  What “muscle armouring” and dissociation actually look like in the body 
•  Why you can appear confident… but not feel at ease within yourself 
•  The nervous system patterns that keep you stuck in self-protection 
•  Why midlife often activates unresolved trauma
•  The connection between trauma, body image, and food noise
•  Why midlife and life transitions often bring these patterns to the surface 
•  How gentle trauma release creates real, lasting change 

✨ Practical Takeaways

Ramona shares simple, accessible ways to begin:

•  Engaging your senses to bring your body out of survival mode 
•  Creating small rituals that signal safety
•  Moving your body in ways that build strength and connection
•  Shifting your relationship with food from control → trust 

✨ Who This Episode Is For

This episode is for you if:

•  You’re in midlife and feel like you’ve lost yourself somewhere along the way
•  You’ve done a lot of inner work… but still don’t feel fully at ease 
•  Your relationship with your body or food feels harder than it should 
•  You’re navigating a big life transition and questioning what’s next
•  You want to feel confident, connected, and at home in yourself again

✨ Connect with Ramona & Resources Mentioned

•  Ramona’s websites:
   👉 Ramonakcoaching.com
  👉 gentletraumacoach.com 
• Facebook
• Instagram
• Linked In
• YouTube    
• Free Resources:
• Food Archetypes 
• Grief
• Parts Reflection Guide

If this episode resonates with you then I'd love for you to hit SUBSCRIBE so you can keep updated with each new episode as soon as it's released and we'd be most grateful if you would give us a RATING as well. You can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drnatgreen/ or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrNatalieGreen

Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

Dr Nat Green 0:04

Welcome to Growing Tall Poppies, thrive After Trauma. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I am so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through trauma. Or significant challenges and not just survive, but to thrive after it. This is a space for people who've been through trauma or adversity, have done some healing, and know they're meant for more than just coping. This podcast is about post-traumatic growth, not getting back to who you used to be. Rather, understanding who you are now and learning how to stand tall without shrinking, forcing, or abandoning yourself. Here we explore identity after adversity, integrity and visibility wounds, nervous system wisdom. And what it really takes to move forward. In a way that feels aligned, embodied, and true, you'll hear a blend of deep solo conversations and powerful guest interviews with people who have lived this work, not just studied it, because growth doesn't come from pushing harder. It comes from understanding how you adapted. Honoring your nervous system and gently updating the old agreements that no longer fit the life you are ready to live. If you're ready to stop hiding, stop performing, and start owning who you are becoming, then you are in the right place. Let's grow tall together. Welcome back. I'm super excited today to bring you our next guest on the Growing Tall Poppies podcast. It's my absolute pleasure to welcome a lovely lady who I've only recently connected with. And she has experienced and overcome considerable trauma and adversity throughout her life, and she's here to generously chat with us today and share some of her own story and how that has led. Her to the work that she does today. So let me introduce Ramona Kossowan. She's a gentle trauma release practitioner, fitness professional, and food relationship coach who helps women feel at peace in their bodies again, especially during seasons of midlife reinvention and. Don't, most people in our audience connect to that and need a lot of that right now.

Ramona Kossowan 2:50

I feel it.

Dr Nat Green 2:51

Absolutely. There's so much that we don't talk about, isn't there really around that midlife and thankfully we are in an age now where we do talk about it a lot more. But yeah, let's start. I'd love to welcome you Ramona. It's so great to have you here.

Ramona Kossowan 3:11

Thank you. I'm really looking forward to just having a conversation, having some fun with this.

Dr Nat Green 3:15

Yeah, and what I might get you to do then, because I had a little bit more, and I'll put the more detailed info in the show notes, but could you start with giving us a brief introduction of who you really are and what you do in the world?

Ramona Kossowan 3:32

Okay, great. So as far as where I am right now, what I'm really excited about is helping women to just really revitalize themselves and fall in love with themselves. um, you know, after big life transitions or in midlife or when they're recognizing that trauma has affected them. um, you know, I obviously have gone through my own evolution as. We all have. Uh, and I would add being an entrepreneur is like the refiner's fire. It'll force you to confront areas that need healing that you otherwise could be blissfully unaware of and sweep under the rug.

Dr Nat Green 4:09

Absolutely.

Ramona Kossowan 4:10

So that's what, you know, in a nutshell, what I'm really focusing on right now.

Dr Nat Green 4:16

Yeah. So where, whereabouts do you live in the world?

Ramona Kossowan 4:21

Well, I'm in a small town north of Calgary, Alberta, in Canada.

Dr Nat Green 4:25

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 4:26

So I'm in a small community. It's about 3000 people. If unless you live near here, you won't have heard of it. But, I do work online a lot with women across North America. So I've lived in this small community since my oldest child was a baby, so about 21 years.

Dr Nat Green 4:41

Fantastic. And you gotta love small communities. Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 4:46

Yeah. For us, it was a no brainer, myself and my husband to get out of the city. It's just, this is, I feel much more comfortable here with the family.

Dr Nat Green 4:54

Yeah, definitely. So, as my listeners know, when I get guests on. We talk to them about what they've been through in life, and they share a bit of their story as much as you're willing to share. So I'm wondering if you could share an overview of what has happened for you and what you've been through.

Ramona Kossowan 5:19

Sure. Well, I came to kind of a big turning point that I shared in my book that launched this year, uh, of a turning point. It, it was called, Confident You. There are conversations is the book, but my chapter was about a turning point where I realized that I, on many levels, I did not like myself. I did not accept myself. I said I hated myself at the times, and those were my own words. Right? And how am I supposed to thrive in that?

Dr Nat Green 5:46

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 5:47

um, so it was, there was so much that I had. Kind of just buried and stuffed down and armored up, and walled up and braced up and tried to forge a head with a big smile and looking confident. Looked like I had it all together, but inside my body was bracing and rigid and falling apart and, I truly didn't feel at ease with myself. So in my book, I shared a turning point where I realized that needed to change, and that's where my trajectory changed over time, and the right pieces came into place at the right time. And I can certainly say now I do not hate myself. Good. And that is a big start. Yay. But, uh, you know, it, it did really start, I think being in survival mode a lot of my life, you know, starting in childhood and, as many people would say to themselves, it wasn't all bad. It never is. It never is all bad. And in spite of best intentions. um, for my parents, there was a lot of times when I was in survival mode due to, financial instability, multiple moves, school environments that were quite often actually terrifying. School was terrifying. And how are you supposed to survive in a terrifying environment? And school was, to me a very painful experience at times.

Dr Nat Green 7:03

Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 7:03

Um. So with that, and then with the dynamics in my own family of, of being a lot of volatility and I think lack of emotional and psychological maturity mm-hmm. That was more on my dad's side. So it was, it affected me deeply, especially being the oldest child of seven to, uh, six. I had six siblings have six siblings.

Dr Nat Green 7:27

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 7:28

um, and then on top of that, uh, like a, a staunchly religious environment.

Dr Nat Green 7:34

Okay.

Ramona Kossowan 7:34

So those all put layers of stress and struggle and, and burying myself to the bottom.

Dr Nat Green 7:42

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 7:43

I'll take a pause in case there's something you want to

Dr Nat Green 7:45

interject. Yeah, no, there's a lot of layers in there that you've just shared and I guess probably let's you Okay if we unpack some of that.

Ramona Kossowan 7:57

Yeah. We can just kinda back the bus up a little bit.

Dr Nat Green 7:59

So let's go back to. I mean, school is, is so influential in shaping who we are and how we learn and how we show up in the world. And if school is a terrifying environment, then that must have been so awful to navigate.

Ramona Kossowan 8:23

Yeah. And for me, I am and was a very, very sensitive person.

Dr Nat Green 8:27

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 8:27

Right? And then you're going to Sunday school and singing songs you know about Jesus and love and everything, and then you're going to this hardened. I wasn't equipped to be that person in that environment. Yeah. Uh, and like I said, it wasn't all bad, but it doesn't need to be all bad to really affect, and I think around the sixth grade, I was very close to having a nervous breakdown before we moved as a family and it got into a different school situation. Can I say it got better? No, no. There was still a lot of. Struggles along the way. And I think for a lot of women, I've talked to a lot of trauma originates with experiences in school, unfortunately.

Dr Nat Green 9:05

Yes. Yeah. And we know that, particularly that age of zero to seven is when everything is so influential and we establish who we are, who we're becoming, and, and get our core sense of ourselves. So things were already really bad then. They didn't get any better than,

Ramona Kossowan 9:27

yeah. On and off. Yeah. Like it just kept repeating. One bad thing would go away, but then it would be another bad thing. So it left me just really questioning whether I was likable and lovable and worthy.

Dr Nat Green 9:40

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 9:40

Unconsciously, like I wasn't thinking like that. Kids don't think that way, but just thinly underneath. But I needed to hide who I was because it was no good. That was the unconscious message. I'm no good.

Dr Nat Green 9:51

Yeah. Yeah. So that defective self, so that I'm no good. But also that was being reinforced by these bullies around you. Yeah. Who could do that to you, and you didn't know any different. And as you said, being one of the eldest, to be clear, the eldest. I'm the eldest as well. So that comes with all this responsibility and the eldest in a. Family of seven children, there would've been a lot of other dynamics going on there as well.

Ramona Kossowan 10:27

Yeah, there was a lot of fights around doing the dishes. Actually, I remember some really painful events around fighting because at some point I reached a tipping point, I think towards teens where I started to push back.

Dr Nat Green 10:38

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 10:39

um, because underneath there's part of me that's a rebel and, and that caused more conflict and chaos, because I was what they would think of as the, the parentified. Older daughter.

Dr Nat Green 10:50

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 10:50

Very mature for her age. And I was, by nature, very bossy that I just stepped right into that. But it, it also affected my relationship with my siblings because I should not have been that relationship with them. um, but yeah, it was, just another area where I didn't really feel like I had truly a soft place to land.

Dr Nat Green 11:07

Mm. And I'm hearing very much that, you know, you were getting it at school, but you also had this stuff going on at home, so you didn't get a break.

Ramona Kossowan 11:15

Yeah.

Dr Nat Green 11:16

And what, knowing what you know now, what was that doing to your nervous system? And I know that we talk a lot on this podcast about nervous systems and energy and, and the impact of all of this heightened being on alert and being on guard all our lives. What's the response to you in your nervous system?

Ramona Kossowan 11:42

On the body level, I think just tension and bracing. So I'd wake up with my neck seized up. um, and I still, to this day that's muscle armoring was, it's better now than it was. um, I also found myself dissociating a lot. I didn't know what that was at that time, but my teachers would comment, I was spacing out. Okay. I would literally zone unfocus my eyes and my, and my brain would literally leave my body. I was dissociating. Yeah. So people would say, make comments that I was stupid. And I know I'm not stupid, not at all. Right. But it's, uh, I was spacing out.

Dr Nat Green 12:15

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 12:16

And that was just a way to zoom out and, and just step away a little bit.

Dr Nat Green 12:20

Yeah. To keep you safe.

Ramona Kossowan 12:22

Mm-hmm.

Dr Nat Green 12:23

Yeah. So, you know, our environment makes a huge. difference or has a huge impact on our experience in the world and how we show up in the world. So that, I just really wanted to explore some of the, the dynamics around the school stuff. So fast forward to where we were. So you had all this stuff going on and then you had the religious side of things as well.

Ramona Kossowan 12:54

Yeah, so I didn't like, it was a very patriarchal religion, which made me kind of cringe. I inherently, without even understanding what patriarchy was, I did not like it. It really made me cringe.

Dr Nat Green 13:08

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 13:08

I knew I was not like the women that I was seeing that were kind of like in this life and, and seemingly liking it. No. But it also made me reject my. Soft spiritual side, my feminine side, and even my womanhood because there's that un undercurrent of shame with womanhood. So there was, you know, some things I needed to heal over time. And when I was an adult and had my own choices, I didn't choose to attend or be a part of this religion.

Dr Nat Green 13:36

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 13:37

But there's, you know, I had to kind of buffer that to my family a bit.

Dr Nat Green 13:42

Of course,

Ramona Kossowan 13:42

now I don't care. No, nobody cares. But it's, uh, at that stage, I had to kind of reconnect

Dr Nat Green 13:48

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 13:48

To my real parts that I, I still, I I, I kept at arm's length or Mm. Stuffed down below the surface.

Dr Nat Green 13:56

Yeah. As, as you would've had to do.

Ramona Kossowan 13:59

Yeah. I just didn't want, I didn't want anything. Yeah. No,

Dr Nat Green 14:01

yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 14:02

No access. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green 14:04

And that would've been a protective mechanism, but also you didn't share things like that back then.

Ramona Kossowan 14:12

No, I didn't really understand consciously exactly what I was doing.

Dr Nat Green 14:15

No.

Ramona Kossowan 14:15

um, I just didn't want to be vulnerable.

Dr Nat Green 14:18

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when do you think that changed for you

Ramona Kossowan 14:28

was an evolution? Definitely. um, one, another part I talked about in my book a little bit was connecting with other women. Mm-hmm. In a, in a more open. Vulnerable way that was also respecting all aspects of womanhood. And when I was taking, some training as a personal empowerment coach, that was in 2019, um, I was connecting with women. They were sharing very deep and personal stories, and this allowed me to connect with women and womanhood from a different perspective and, heal some of my. Feminine side that I was blocking and feel okay to do that and let some chinks in the armor show through. Yeah. um, because I had a, a, you know, pretty deep sister wound after the experiences I'd had with girls. And by the time I got to womanhood, I did not trust women. Uh, and if I did connect with women that they were still very much at arms length. From me, they didn't really see fully who I was. So that was a, a big start.

Dr Nat Green 15:28

Mm. So going through the world like that with a very deep sister wound and that lack of trust and that real matriarchy in a patriarchal system as well, what, how would you describe what that felt like for you?

Ramona Kossowan 15:48

Well, I didn't really know who I was, like I didn't really fit in the world that I rejected, but I didn't feel like a fit in the current world either. Like there was no place where I fit. Right. So, um, as I kind of unpacked this, you know, and opened up and it did relational healing, can't be, minimized either. Like I met my husband when I was 17.

Dr Nat Green 16:13

Okay.

Ramona Kossowan 16:13

We didn't get married, but he, I met him and he was the first man that was able to be vulnerable with me. Okay. Uh, and to see that let my armor down.

Dr Nat Green 16:24

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 16:25

And then being a mother, so I didn't have children till much later, but being a mother was another healing experience. Um.

Dr Nat Green 16:31

Mm-hmm. And

Ramona Kossowan 16:33

then I kind of forgot where I was going with that. um, starting to. Not be concerned with inserting myself where I don't fit.

Dr Nat Green 16:49

Okay.

Ramona Kossowan 16:49

So that really, shifted is I'm not trying to insert myself, I try to be approved, accepted included.'cause the little girl in me just wanted that.

Dr Nat Green 16:58

Yeah, of course. Of course.

Ramona Kossowan 16:59

So I had to heal that.

Dr Nat Green 17:01

Mm. And you know, we hear people talk about, oh, you know, I had these wounds and. And when we finally have that realization or connect with something that just happens to cross our paths, that we can do that healing work. Some people talk about it as, and leave you thinking, oh, what, you just healed it and it was, it was done like a five minute thing and you think, really? So how long did that really take? And what sort of things did you do that helped heal?

Ramona Kossowan 17:36

Well, I, I went through a period of, I think, rapid and accelerated healing is in, 20 20. Mm-hmm. Uh, in 2019 and 2020 I, in 2020 I started taking my gentle trauma release certification training.

Dr Nat Green 17:49

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 17:49

And this was a fairly new international online school at that time. So we were the, those that were emerging there weren't that many ahead of me. And there were some with me, um, as I was taking the training. I was very acutely aware of the need to do some work with my own trauma, and I knew this, but I was kinda like, oh, no later, I'll just deal with it later. It's a later, but I'm like, no, I need to deal with it now. Right? Mm-hmm. So I did get my own coach, one of my peers, to work with me because I, I had to release what my body was unconsciously bracing for. Yeah. um, still. I couldn't get past that without getting some proper support. Mm-hmm. So I was, I did my own coaching for a few months with my own one of my peers and released some of the core events that were like anchoring my body mm-hmm. In fear, rage shame. Once those events were cleared, um, it was kind of an intense time. It was COVID, my business was shut down, the world was nuts. I was integrating that. Into this next step of becoming a coach and, and growing and in the meantime, everything's nuts. Mm-hmm. um, so it was actually very emotional, because it's like you're suddenly like set down your armor and you're setting, stepping into this open field and it feels very vulnerable and exposed, but it's like, I don't need that armor anymore. I'm going to be courageous and move toward what I actually want. Which gives me joy.

Dr Nat Green 19:20

Mm. And at that time as well, when the world was crazy, it would've also been, you would've had that extra layer of being quite isolated.

Ramona Kossowan 19:33

It was just a really stressful time overall and connecting. As I was finishing my training, we were still very much affected by the goings on of all that.

Dr Nat Green 19:40

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 19:40

And the women I was working with and coaching, uh, it was kind of a universal thing that what was going on in the world and in their communities was heightening their own trauma as well.

Dr Nat Green 19:49

Of course,

Ramona Kossowan 19:50

everything, whatever being had for them, it was just heightening their own trauma. So it was a difficult time.

Dr Nat Green 19:56

Mm.

Ramona Kossowan 19:56

It was cathartic because of the work I was doing and I was moving towards something. I'm really passionate about.

Dr Nat Green 20:02

Yeah,

Ramona Kossowan 20:02

but was it easy? No. No, no, not really.

Dr Nat Green 20:05

No. No. But I think what stands out there is that you made the decision that you could keep it at arm's length and continue to do that, but some part of you decided, yeah, no, I want to confront this.

Ramona Kossowan 20:22

Well, yeah. Part of my protection is don't let anybody in.

Dr Nat Green 20:25

Absolutely.

Ramona Kossowan 20:27

Like even my husband, there's some things I don't share with him. Right? Yeah. And, for me it was a huge, courageous step to be vulnerable with someone like that. So I had to be someone I trusted. And this is something I take to heart as, as a huge honor to sit with women or men in a place of, um, vulnerability that they've likely never shared in the same way. And it's just a, a very sacred space.

Dr Nat Green 20:53

Yeah. Yeah. So tell, tell me a little bit more about the gentle trauma release work that you did then that you obviously embodied and embraced and it, it helped heal a lot of your core events, as you said, and wounds, and now you're doing that with others in the world. Tell us a bit more about that so our listeners can understand more about what you do.

Ramona Kossowan 21:19

So when I was learning about this method, from my professor who was part of my other coaching school as a, had a paid position there, she helped me to understand why some of my practice clients were not getting the outcomes that some of the others did, and she helped me to understand it was trauma. And at that time I didn't really know really what trauma was. Not really as a theory maybe, but no, I didn't. And for me to know that I could. Find an acceptable, simple, repeatable, elegant way to help people be free of trauma. I had this lit up energy that I just had. I had to go there, even though it was at the time, not logically the best time to pursue another career path, but I'm like, I, I have to do this. Mm-hmm. But what is really I love to share is that it is gentle, it's nervous system based. But it's strategic. So it's not just random exercises and doing somatic work. It's actually, getting underneath what your body is anchored in, which takes, you know, a, a intuitive coach with safety and guidance and scale. Mm-hmm. To get underneath what it is. Let your body know that you're safe and that you no longer need to brace for it, which is. Very much working with the unconscious and the body. So your body just melts like,

Dr Nat Green 22:40

oh,

Ramona Kossowan 22:42

oh, what were you talking about? Right. So it's just like,

Dr Nat Green 22:44

yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 22:45

um, that is the more therapeutic part of the work is mm-hmm. Getting underneath and releasing with strategic nervous system work, traumatic memories, events and emotions. So your body no longer finds those intrusive or intense.

Dr Nat Green 22:59

Wow.

Ramona Kossowan 23:00

And then there's. Cleaning up the residue. So the behaviors, the inner critic, the boundaries, the habits, the self-care, that is all a result. And then building the new. So that's all along the way. You're getting empowered to maintain your wellbeing long-term and building a trauma free identity.'cause your identity is what drives everything. Exactly. um, so those are phases along the way and, and. There's no cookie cutter. It's all intuitive and it's based on where a person is at and and what is surfacing and coming up rather than pushing.

Dr Nat Green 23:36

Mm, I love that so much. So really you're doing, are you doing a lot of talking or it's more reading their bodies and how they're holding themselves or their language? Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 23:52

Well a lot of it's by looking for what's not being said verbally.'cause we always can't always articulate. And with trauma, as you probably know, there's part of our brain that doesn't really function. Mm-hmm. We don't have the vocabulary for it. But your body will tell you.

Dr Nat Green 24:04

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 24:04

Uh, your breathing, your neck, your face, your jaw, your eyes, um. So with this, it's always strategic use of the body. So even if it's not necessarily addressing, a traumatic event, like maybe we've addressed that, but now you're in a place where I need to know if I need to finish my degree or just say, screw it and go down this other path that I'm feeling kind of stuck on. So even those kind of situations, I help people to connect to their body's messaging and intuition, and that I think. Build confidence because we understand how to trust ourselves and listen to what our body's saying, because we're used to being that, you know, the squirrel in the head all the time. Yeah. So getting out of your bo head into your body, uh, in a way that's helpful. Yes. um, and when you're ready is huge.

Dr Nat Green 24:51

Yeah. And I think you touched on something really important that you have to be ready, don't you? Because

Ramona Kossowan 24:58

Yeah,

Dr Nat Green 24:59

fighting, I'm thinking, okay, I've gotta do this, I've gotta do that, and I've gotta heal this stuff. When you are not ready, your body will react and brace for that, won't it?

Ramona Kossowan 25:09

Yeah. Well, what I love is usually when I connect with women, they, sometimes men, I'll say, but I do work with a lot of women, they've been working on it in different ways. Right. um, or it's a long time ago, but the symptoms are presenting themselves now and it's still very much affecting how you're living.

Dr Nat Green 25:29

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 25:30

When we can clear whatever's anchored in, in your body, it, your brain just changes. You see yourself differently, and you start making those positive steps without any coaxing coaching guidance, the shift begins. Almost immediately. Like it's, it's, it's so rapid how the shifts can begin. And that to me is also very exciting.

Dr Nat Green 25:53

Mm. Definitely. Because let's face it, the world is so busy and moving so fast. We want that quick fix. We don't wanna have to go to therapy for 10 years.

Ramona Kossowan 26:06

Heck no. Right? It's, we just want relief. Absolutely. And we wanna maybe have some joy, can we have some relief and some joy? Thank you. Uh, and this is what I find people can experience absolutely. In far, far, far less time than they maybe anticipate, which to me is just brings hope and, and excitement back for the life that you can have.

Dr Nat Green 26:25

Uh, definitely. And I think, you know, midlife. Is a time of so much change hormonally, but also, you know, if we've had kids, they're often moving outta home. They're transitioning and we're trying to find ourselves as well. So I think one of the things that doesn't get spoken about enough is that joy. So I love that joy and hope are so important to you in the work that you do. So tell us a bit more about that.

Ramona Kossowan 26:59

Yeah. It's like we are meant to experience joy on the regular. It's our birthright. It's our natural state when we don't have a whole bunch of crap in the way, right? So yes, life can be hard. That's human existence. But that doesn't mean we can't have slivers of joy all along the way without waiting for some momentous milestone that comes and goes. And then you're like, where am I now? It's, it's the little things like taking a breath and appreciating your body, um, sitting in a sun beam, uh, being with someone whose company is just being with your animal, enjoying a cup of coffee, music, right? There's so many ways. And when we feel safe in our body. We can experience joy without being afraid the other shoe's going to drop or looking over our shoulder for the next disaster. We feel safe to receive. And that's important.

Dr Nat Green 27:52

Yes, very much so. So what would be a couple of little tips that you could give our listeners? Of how they might be able to introduce a little bit of joy or even go back a step of how they might be able to do something to feel safe in their body quickly. Now,

Ramona Kossowan 28:15

well, what I like to think about is what gets you in your senses that feels safe to you. A lot of people sitting and meditating is an absolute no, right? They just, yep, I'm one of them. Your body doesn't want to do that. So this is where you can think what engages your senses. So it might be a walk in nature, touching the earth, touching a tree, scooching your cutie's face, right? Like so, um, right hands on activities like maybe something you enjoy doing with your hands, even if it's prepping a delicious meal. And you have some music on and a candle lit, it's what gets you in your senses, singing obnoxiously loud to your own music track. Like I like to do really cringey dancing. So this is my workout space as well as where I train some clients. But I do, if I'm doing a workout, the tunes come on. And I dance like an idiot. And if anyone was watching it would be very much used as evidence against me, but it's like this is my time to get in my body and just be free. Uh, and it might be singing as well. So there's so many ways for one is just getting you in your senses. um, it's also touch is amazing. So if you don't have a safe person in your world that you're hugging, how else can you invite sensitive touch, like gentle touch into your world? And also routines and rituals is a way of telling your body, I'm held. Yes. So if you, instead of like hitting snooze and dashing out the door, what if you set the alarm a little bit early and you take nice deep breaths and look out the window while you have your morning tea or eat your breakfast? Little routines make your body feel held and safe.

Dr Nat Green 29:55

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very, very powerful. And something that people can start doing now.

Ramona Kossowan 30:04

Yeah. It's gonna be unique to you. Yeah. What feels good to you? How can you integrate that in a way that feels very accessible? It's not overreaching. You don't need a 12 step nighttime routine, but how about one, right? Instead of doom scrolling and flopping into bed so tired, you can't even brush your teeth. So let's, let's prioritize feeling good as part of your. Existence.

Dr Nat Green 30:27

Mm, yes. Beautiful. I love that so much, and I know that people are gonna be really, really interested in that as just a strategy they can start to implement now. So I'd love people to share with us and message us about what they've chosen to do for themselves to start. That would be great. So I know one of the other things, so you do fitness work and I can see your gym behind you there, but also you do a lot of work around food as a food relationship coach. So did you wanna share some of that?'cause I know a lot of people after trauma, particularly any sort of sexual assault in particular, will often change the way we feel about ourselves and have body images. And I know you. Talk about food noise and things like that. So I'd love for you to share a bit about that. Yeah, if you don't mind.

Ramona Kossowan 31:25

Yeah. It's, because food, you know, is obviously prevalent. We need food, but also food is delicious and it brings us joy. So we should be able to live in a world where food is delicious, brings us joy and connection without it becoming a problem. And trauma can definitely. Interlace with our relationship with food in, in so many ways. And, um, I actually have another free resource. It's called, um, find Your Food Archetype. So what I find is if you're approaching midlife or past midlife, um, it's like the perfect storm because, any nervous system stuff you've been carrying becomes. Harder to deal with because you don't have those buffer hormones and your body's like, I no longer can tolerate anything. Right. So, and then your metabolism and stress and all these other pieces, body imaging, uh, body image issues. And see, I used to coach a holistic weight loss program, uh, way earlier in my work. Mm-hmm. And it actually got good results for some people. It had a strong foundation in health. But what I found is for many women, they would spiral. So if they already had a hard time making themselves a priority and they were forever martyring themselves for all other things, which women are usually sainted for, for being selfless.

Dr Nat Green 32:41

Exactly.

Ramona Kossowan 32:42

It also resulted in guilt and shame around how they, uh, took care of their body and, and were wanting to lose weight. So. I seeing that, and when I learned about a new certification, it's called Moderation 365. So this allows me to take food relationship and integrate it into my understanding of trauma. So to give real, practical, actionable, evidence-based ways to stop dieting, but not falling into the free for all. Either so you can actually mindfully and satisfied and move towards your big goals while living in your body and just liking your life. And like I, I trust myself. I've got this. I can go out for dinner, I can go to a buffet, I can eat at home. I trust myself and I can eat according to my values. And I think women we're giving away our power when we're obsessing about food and our bodies. When you have so much wisdom. And so much power and so much to offer. It's like a big, huge energy drain. Like someone pulled the plug in the tub when food and body image takes over. So I like to combine the knowledge of nervous system with the understanding of mastering mindful eating as a tool, and a skill that you don't have to keep starting over. unlike diet

Dr Nat Green 34:06

and wow, you know, who doesn't want that to be able to. Manage. They can go and eat what they want when they want, and feel connected to their bodies, knowing that they can nourish it and it can bring joy rather than all the other things that so often come for people around food after some sort of trauma.

Ramona Kossowan 34:30

Absolutely. And I'll, uh, I think I can't emphasize enough, like if it's a fairly high food, struggle, like it's, it's been an ongoing thing for years.

Dr Nat Green 34:40

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 34:40

Addressing the trauma first makes all the rest either a thousand times easier or even a non-issue. So that's something to consider too, rather than considering a more, a diet or mindset work is how can I heal what's driving the behaviors so that the next steps become easier? And it's just little tweaks instead of, stress.

Dr Nat Green 35:00

So can we talk about some of the work then that you do with clients in this area? If you had someone you know come to you and they, they presented with constant food noise, obsessing about food. It was just there from the time they get up in the morning to the time they go to bed, and they've tried every diet, for example, you know, they've got a trauma history, but they're scared to be vulnerable. How would you approach that?

Ramona Kossowan 35:32

I think it's just, I like to sit with someone and have just a very open conversation about what outcomes are important to you, what would you like to experience and how do you want to feel? If we both feel like it's a, a good fit to work together, then I'll invite them to work with me and give them some options. It's, it's gonna be like we're both leaning in and going, yes, please.

Dr Nat Green 35:53

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 35:54

There's creating not safety. And just understanding there's a path forward that is science based. So they don't need to necessarily have the same experiences they've had in the past. There's a better way, and relief is very much in sight, and we don't try to tackle everything at once.

Dr Nat Green 36:12

Good.

Ramona Kossowan 36:12

So we wanna make an easy on ramp, start getting your nervous system feeling resilient and safe.

Dr Nat Green 36:19

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 36:20

So that your, your creative mind can take control again instead of your survival brain.

Dr Nat Green 36:25

Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 36:25

And if someone is out of my scope to help them, I'll communicate that and help to try to find them the next best step. Like, if it's come to the point of, you know, full blown eating disorders and such, then I would try to refer them out to someone who's more suited for that level of struggle with food. But the women that I work with are, they're not there, but it's, it's been an issue for them and quite often, a long time.

Dr Nat Green 36:47

So you do it, you know, the safety and then you help them work through their trauma and then the other stuff has a flow on effect. And then you would work through some of the eating issues, but that would start to improve anyway.

Ramona Kossowan 37:03

Yeah. Typically it's a lot of these changes happen naturally as your nervous system is cleared of excessive trauma.

Dr Nat Green 37:09

Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 37:09

If someone is not. Necessarily looking for a gentle trauma release. That's okay. And I'll just, we'll just suss out whether I can still help them with the level that they are, which,

Dr Nat Green 37:18

mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 37:19

There's, just the moderation 365, just the food-based program mm-hmm. Will still very much help because it takes the pressure off right away and gets them easy wins right away.

Dr Nat Green 37:30

Oh, that's good. So when, when you look back with the benefits of hindsight, how do you believe you've changed? We talked about identity as far as who you were and how has your identity changed now compared to who you were then?

Ramona Kossowan 37:53

A lot.

Dr Nat Green 37:53

Yeah.

Ramona Kossowan 37:54

Women who've known me before that, especially women that do deeper work, they'll say, I'm like a different person.

Dr Nat Green 37:59

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 38:01

Different person. My whole self underneath, like the essence of me is always here. Mm-hmm. But I think I'm more open, more relaxed, more fun, more playful, more able to connect, less judgmental, less rigid. Like there's so many pieces in there, that have just expanded and. Like any women listening, like there's a lot of aspects of you that are fluid and will develop and grow just like a plant growing in a safe place, right? So when you have that environment of coming out of survival mode. Like, I'm, I'm still obviously growing and learning, and learning to listen more and, and lean in more and be more curious, and not just rush in and try to, like, my overriding one week would be to just go in and, and fix whatever, right? I don't do that with my clients, but that would be like a, just a, like a baseline. Feature of my previous personality. Yeah. Yeah, so there, there's so many pieces, but I'm just way more open and relaxed and I have way more fun.

Dr Nat Green 39:01

Mm. Yeah. So when you look at you and, and your life experiences and then all the people that you work with that have had the privilege of working with you, do you see any specific qualities or attributes. That you think is key for them moving out of trauma into post-traumatic growth and healing?

Ramona Kossowan 39:28

Yeah, so what a lot of clients have said to different terms is, I finally see my worth. And this is for example, when you come from, a history of relational trauma where your wounds have come from relationships. Yeah. Or as long as you can remember. I mean, that's a long growth. And when I hear a woman say, I feel powerful, which are my client's own words, or I finally see my worth, that to me is like fireworks. Fireworks right there. Because those are powerful words that shape the choices they make, the relationships they have, how they care for their body. Feeling powerful and seeing your worth literally changes everything.

Dr Nat Green 40:13

Yeah,

Ramona Kossowan 40:13

it changes how you show up.

Dr Nat Green 40:15

Mm. Most definitely. You show up completely differently in the world.

Ramona Kossowan 40:21

Yeah. You're still you or the real you and you're, you're evolving into the next phase of you that you version 2.0 or 10.0 whatever version it is.

Dr Nat Green 40:30

And you know, we do evolve and move forward of course. But I guess you start to really show up. With that sense of vulnerability, but without feeling, you've gotta hide all these parts of you because of shame or whatever other things taken the

Ramona Kossowan 40:46

boundaries, right? So instead of needing armor and walled up armor, you have boundaries. You decide what you share, you decide what kind of access people have to you, that that's fine. But you're in sitting in the place of I'm okay and not needing to, to be earned. That okayness and that worthiness.

Dr Nat Green 41:03

Yes, definitely. So thinking, if you could share one thing with our listeners that could help them as they navigate their own adversity or post-traumatic, post-traumatic growth path, what would that be?

Ramona Kossowan 41:23

Well, I think it can't be overlooked to look after your body. So if you're in a place where you, maybe you've, you're been like a hustle, grind, kind of a mode or the opposite of shutdown down and, and I'll start when the perfect time comes, but never comes. Mm-hmm. I think it is incredibly powerful to start taking care of your body. So like way before I had all this trauma coaching, I had a woman that I worked with just with strength training online. So I work online through an app. She started strength training and she went from daily panic attacks to once every couple of weeks just by starting strength training. It doesn't replace other modalities, but there's so much power in owning that you have tenacity that you can use to change your physical state. It's not the same as. Running up and down the stairs or doing a bunch of cardio and I don't do burpee stuff. Right. But it's like when you start strengthening your body

Dr Nat Green 42:25

mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 42:27

It, it something shifts and in midlife we need it anyways. We need it like crazy. Definitely. So work at the level that you can, like, get some support or get some advice or follow something that's suited to your level. Work with a trainer if you can. But that is a huge game changer for a lot of women. That's overlooked.

Dr Nat Green 42:47

Yes, I would imagine. I can absolutely relate to that. Definitely. And like you said, you're not

Ramona Kossowan 42:53

about being a gym bunny, like no, you're just getting strong. No.

Dr Nat Green 42:58

Yeah. And you can do it at home online.

Ramona Kossowan 43:02

Exactly.

Dr Nat Green 43:03

Yeah. It doesn't have to be going to the gym if you're not someone who likes the gym.

Ramona Kossowan 43:08

No, you can if you enjoy that. Absolutely. It's, like a lot of women I work with, have been active in different levels in different ways, but never really felt like they mastered strength training or they didn't get the proper support. So I like to make it accessible and, matching their lives so that you can live in a body that feels strong and energized and youthful without, being unrealistic with what you're, you're capable of.

Dr Nat Green 43:32

Mm. And it needs to be sustainable. Right.

Ramona Kossowan 43:35

Exactly. So, you know, it it, that's one of the things I love is you don't need to try a cookie cutter approach and just'cause it worked for one of your coworkers or your, your aunt in the next state over doesn't mean it's right for you. So

Dr Nat Green 43:47

I love that.

Ramona Kossowan 43:49

Yeah.

Dr Nat Green 43:50

So as we move to wrapping up this conversation, where can our listeners find out more about you and find you online?

Ramona Kossowan 44:00

So of course there's my website, Ramonakcoaching.com. And I have a trauma website as well that's very specific to that. It's the gentletraumacoach.com Yeah. And we'll have, you'll see me on socials, so all the major socials. You'll see me on YouTube under Ramonakcoaching with some episodes coming. So, you can find me there under the RamonaKcoaching, or my name Ramona Kossowan which is LinkedIn old account.

Dr Nat Green 44:28

Excellent. Yeah, so I'll put all that in the show notes. And I know before we started recording, you also mentioned that you have a beautiful, a new resource that you'd love to share. So I'll put that in the show notes, but I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about that as well.

Ramona Kossowan 44:47

So I did, an interview on a podcast related to grief as well, and I wanted something to go a bit further with the listeners. So this one is called When Grief Feels Stuck, and it's for listeners to explore whether trauma is actually anchoring their grief. That maybe this is an aspect that needs to be considered, because I find sometimes people feel like, this is how I'm gonna feel now forever. This is about where it's settled and this is it. This is about as good as it's gonna get. Or it keeps repeating an intensity like with the cycles of the seasons and this, this is to help explore how trauma can anchor grief in the body and how there is a path forward when the trauma is addressed. Grief can shift naturally and organically.

Dr Nat Green 45:34

I think that would be a very, very valuable resource because as we know, you know, the body keeps the score. Our experiences stay stuck in the body, and if we haven't found a way to gently release it, then it is gonna continue to keep coming back and we repeat our old patterns no matter how much work we think we've done. So it's about really. Getting into that nervous system to gently release it, isn't it?

Ramona Kossowan 46:06

Yeah. Like I had to do lots of grieving as well. I sometimes it's not really obvious, like a death, which is obviously a very impactful, significant loss, which I will talk about in this, free resource. But sometimes it's grieving what was lost for you in some way. What could have been and should have been that that isn't. And, those were all different kinds of grieving I had to do as well.

Dr Nat Green 46:30

Mm. And I think that it's really important to acknowledge that, that some people, you know, think, oh, I haven't had a major trauma. I haven't, you know, had this major big T trauma. But anything that causes us to feel that we can't cope. is Something we need to look at. And when grief comes, it can be grieving our identity, who we used to be. If things change often as we move into midlife, we are lost. We don't know who we are, and there's that grief of who we used to be. But there is a way through it, and I think. That resource will be really powerful to help people find their way through that. So thank you so much for put that in the show notes and link it up. We're excited

Ramona Kossowan 47:20

about it. Good, good.

Dr Nat Green 47:23

So I always end my show asking our guests a question, one of my favorite questions. What do you think your younger self would think of where you are now and what you've achieved?

Ramona Kossowan 47:40

I think she. Would be blown away.

Dr Nat Green 47:43

Mm-hmm.

Ramona Kossowan 47:45

Because she was brought up with this programming, again, interwoven with religion is this is what your future looks like and this is what a good girl and a good woman looks like. And I didn't really resonate with that. I never would've imagined myself now showing up in this, the energy of leadership, the energy of holding space, and feeling. Loving and connected, but also like shining a light for other people. I would've been so proud to be like, wow, I can't wait to be her.

Dr Nat Green 48:20

Oh, I love that. Oh, and I do think that we do lose sight of how far we've come, so that's why I like to ask that question because we just, you know, get on with things and we live our life now. It's like, yeah. It's always really important to reflect on, hang on, you've been through all of this, and look at what you are doing now. So thank you so much for coming on and so openly being vulnerable and sharing your journey and you're such a gift to the world. I'm really excited and I'm sure a lot of people will listen and download your resource and be inspired by. Thank you. I'm

Ramona Kossowan 48:58

really happy to have been able to show up and, and share. Oh,

Dr Nat Green 49:03

thank you so much. Bye for now. Thank you for spending this time with me on growing tall poppies. My hope is that today's episode has offered you something more than insight, that it's helped you feel a little more connected to who you are now, a little more trusting of your body, and a little more permission to stand tall without shrinking or forcing yourself forward. Post-traumatic growth isn't about fixing yourself or returning to who you once were. It's about understanding how you adapted, honoring your nervous system, and gently choosing what no longer needs to come with you. New episodes of growing Tall poppies are released weekly. Every Tuesday, and I'd love for you to continue walking this path with us as we explore identity after adversity, integrity and visibility wounds, nervous system wisdom. And what it truly means to grow forward, grounded, aligned, and embodied. If this episode resonated, I invite you to subscribe, follow, share it with someone that you feel might need it, or simply take a quiet moment to reflect on what's ready to move forward. For you. You can also find me on Instagram at Dr. Nat Green on Facebook at Dr. Natalie Green or over on YouTube at Dr. Nat Green. And remember, you don't need to rush and you don't need to hide anymore. Stay connected, stay true, and keep standing tall like the tall poppy you are. I'll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.