From Loss to Legacy: Kimberly Stevens on Turning Grief into Purpose

Content Warning ⚠️ - This episode discusses child loss, hospitalisation, grief and end-of-life decisions. Please listen with care and have support available and take breaks as needed.

In this deeply moving conversation, Dr Nat Green speaks with psychologist and grieving mum Kimberly Stevens, who lost her 13-year-old son Ethan to T-cell Acute Lymphoblastic Leukaemia in 2021. Six months later, back at work and searching for what was missing between therapy sessions, Kimberly set out to solve a critical gap for bereaved parents—local, lived-experience connection.

After three years of development, she launched Kids Connecting Parents (April 2025), a geolocation app helping grieving parents find and message one another nearby, build real-world support, and feel less alone.

Key Highlights / Takeaways

• Ethan’s story: from misdiagnosed “asthma” to ICU, and the family’s final days filled with love.
• The truth about grief: why integration (not “moving on”) is the most compassionate path.
• The basket of tools: how Kimberly used her clinical wisdom and lived experience to feel everything and re-engage with life.
• The connection gap: why many parents lose support—and how local, face-to-face community transforms healing.
• Building the app: funding hurdles, unexpected allies, and a “dating-app-style” interface (without the dating!).
• Boundaries & return to work: practical ways professionals can pace capacity after loss.
• Hope in action: 2,200+ messages exchanged since launch, connecting parents across Australia, NZ, Canada, the US & Germany.
• Tiny steps matter: water, sleep, a walk, a text—each builds capacity to hold what hurts.
• It truly “takes a village to grieve a child.” Creating and joining that village is healing.

About our guest — Kimberly Stevens
Registered Psychologist, founder of Kids Connecting Parents, and devoted mum to Ethan and Jett. Kimberly blends professional training with lived experience to create safer, closer, local support for parents navigating life after child loss.

Resources & how to help

• Kids Connecting Parents App — Available on Apple & Android 
• Website: www.kidsconnectingparents.com
• Financial accessibility: 99¢ AUD/month helps cover hosting and security. If cost is a barrier, email kimberly@kidsconnectingparents.com
  for 5 years free—no questions asked.
• Facebook
• Instagram
• Thank you to Mining Skills Australia who made the App possible

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Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

Dr Nat Green: 0:01

Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I'm so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through post-traumatic growth and not just survive, but to thrive after trauma. Through our podcast, we will explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater purpose, self-awareness, and a deep inner peace. Through integrating the many years of knowledge and professional experience, as well as the wisdom of those who have experienced trauma firsthand. We'll combine psychology accelerated approaches. Coaching and personal experience to assist you, to learn, to grow and to thrive. I hope to empower you to create deeper awareness and understanding and stronger connections with yourself and with others, whilst also paving the way for those who have experienced trauma and adversity to reduce their suffering and become the very best versions of themselves. In order to thrive. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. hi, and welcome back to Growing Tall Poppies, thrive After Trauma. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I am really honored and grateful today to bring you our next guest on the Growing Tall Poppies podcast. I first heard this amazing lady speak on my mentors Therapists Rising podcast, and was in awe of her story, her strength, and how even in the most challenging. Of situations, she's still using her experience to pay things forward. So let me start by introducing Kimberly Stevens to you all. Kimberly is a registered psychologist and a grieving Mum after losing her teenage son Ethan to T-Cell acute lymphoblastic leukemia four years ago when he was 13. Kimberly also has another handsome teenage son, Jettt. And after Ethan's passing, Kimberly wanted to talk to other grieving parents to find out what life was going to look and feel like. And she needed to talk to someone who really understood what she was feeling. And six months after losing Ethan, Kimberly returned to work as a psychologist and found she wanted to help other grieving parents. So after searching for gaps in service, she spent the next three years designing, building, and launching the Kids Connecting Parents app, and the app was launched in April, 2025. So welcome Kimberly. It's so great to have you here.

Kimberly Stevens: 2:59

Thanks Nat. It's really good to talk to you too.

Dr Nat Green: 3:02

And I know we chatted the other day and, and I, as I said, I listened to you on Dr. Hayley's podcast and I was really blown away by, you know, your story, but your commitment to the cause and your mission.

Kimberly Stevens: 3:19

Thank you.

Dr Nat Green: 3:20

So, I know I gave a little bit of an intro then, but can we start with you giving us a brief intro of who you are and in your words, what you do in the world.

Kimberly Stevens: 3:31

Sure. So I'm Kimberly. You covered a fair bit there in the intro. I yeah, born in Mount Isa, raised in the Whitsundays studied psychology straight out of school. Went straight into child protection and youth justice. Traveled up in the northern area with that, and then moved to London for a year. Worked in child protection and youth justice over there as well. Came back to Australia, and landed in a little town called Murrimbah to visit my sister, and I've not left yet, and that was 23 years ago. Oh, wow. So yeah, I had met the father of my children here and we had the two boys. And then actually when I was pregnant with Ethan, my first son, yeah, I went back to uni to do my postgrad Oh, okay. For my registration. So I did that over about six years while I was pregnant with Ethan, then I had Ethan pregnant with Jettt had Jettt two years later. So all the times through my having the kids I was studying as well, so yeah. Wow. It was a challenge but, it was good and, yeah. Yeah, so I've just been working out here as a psychologist, since then as well, and raising the kids out here.

Dr Nat Green: 4:47

Mm. And certainly a really challenging population. Child protection and youth justice. I've done a bit of work in that area myself, and yes, it's certainly a pretty tough gig.

Kimberly Stevens: 4:59

Yeah, it definitely is. There's a definitely a high burnout rate there. Yeah. I think in total I spent about 13 years with them. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 5:08

And as our listeners know. And I've already alluded to it that the guests that come on my show are people who have experienced trauma or adversity in their life, and we talk about how they've navigated their experience and any lessons or learnings they have as a result. And I know you have a lot of pearls of wisdom and a lot of learnings to share. So I'm just wondering if you could share an overview of, you know, maybe what was happening pre losing Ethan and where you were at then and what was going on, and then we'll shift into, yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 5:51

Yeah. Yeah, Ethan was 13. Our other son Jett was 11. We were a family that were really busy with sport travel'cause we live in central Queensland, sport is not here, it's everywhere else and we travel everywhere for it. And so yeah, we were just a busy family two working parents. Ethan was really healthy. And then Christmas 2020 we were down in Yamba visiting Michael's parents and yeah, it was Christmas day and the two weeks leading up to that Christmas day, I had taken Ethan to four doctors. He just was having a bit of trouble breathing and a bit of pain in his chest, and he didn't really complain about many things. So when he did I knew that something was going on. And yeah, he just, he got treated for asthma, which wasn't really in his history. Each of the doctors that we saw just added something onto the asthma treatment. And two nights before Christmas day, Ethan came into me at about 11 o'clock at night and said, Mum, I can't breathe very well. So I said, let's go to the hospital. We'll go over. It was a very small country hospital where we were down there. And yeah, he unfortunately was given more. Asthma type treatment. And then Christmas day we woke up and there's a there's a couple of things we do down in Yamba that we love, and one of'em was going to the surf beaches and another one was going to these rock pools where you jump off the cliff. And we spent that morning swimming in this ocean. The boys did with their dad, Michael. And then we went to the rock pools and jumped and Ethan just did a couple of jumps and got outta the water and said, my chest really hurts Mum. And I said let's go. Went back to the house, got him to have a shower and laid down. And m and my sister are both nurses, so I ran, rang them. I was like what do I do? And we talked and I said, I'm just gonna take him back to the hospital, even though it was Christmas day and it was there wouldn't be many people there. So we got in the car and we drove back and yeah, Ethan was a pretty big 13-year-old. He probably looked more like 16 at the time. Very strong. He was a football player. So again, we it was hard to explain what was going on and I just, said to the doctor, I'm not gonna leave until,'cause the doctor said it looks okay. And I said, I'm not leaving until you do something else. I've seen four doctors, I need you to test something. I don't care what it is, but you've gotta do something else. Do something further. Well done. So they did a blood test and obviously that his white cells would've been really high. So then they did a chest x-ray that took a couple of hours'cause there was nobody there to read it'cause it was Christmas day. We had a few hiccups at the hospital on the day, just I won't go into it, but at the end what they did was they sent Ethan's results up to the Queensland Children's Hospital. Okay. They came back pretty quickly to say that. So he had basically had a a big tumor in his chest that was about the size of a football.

Dr Nat Green: 8:53

Oh wow.

Kimberly Stevens: 8:54

And they came back pretty quickly saying it was leukemia and that was a tumor. And so we got a helicopter, we got flown up by the rescue flight that night. I think we landed in Brisbane at about quarter to 12, still on Christmas day. And yeah, it was confirmed that's what was going on. The acute lymphoblastic leukemia is pretty fast acting, they told me. So that tumor would've been growing only for a few months and possibly because Ethan didn't complain about much it got quite big before he really complained about it. So he spent 10 days in hospital in the ICU, which is called picu there, it's a pediatric ICU. Yeah. Starting chemo straight away so he could, reduce the tumor so he could breathe on his own properly. He started his cancer treatment. We then got him out of hospital for 17 days that he spent with us, which was the first month of treatment is called induction for cancer, and that's quite heavy chemo. It's about three days a week and takes a lot out of you. That whole month we spent petrified. Really? Yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 10:07

And you all moved, went straight there and so you were all living in Brisbane?

Kimberly Stevens: 10:13

Yes. Yeah. The other son came down and we when we had Ethan in the apartment, which we just got near the hospital we couldn't, it was only a small apartment. So we, our other son came back here to spend the time with one of the families that we knew and one of his mates and yeah, we had Ethan out with us for that 17 days. And then. On the last day of induction. He, you can get a chest x-ray when you go for check-ins and He got a chest x-ray that wasn't read at the time and we went home that day. Feeling pretty good. They want your cancer to be gone by the end of induction or not be readable in your cells.

Dr Nat Green: 11:04

Okay.

Kimberly Stevens: 11:05

For a better chance of it not relapsing. And Ethan had got there so, we were all pretty stoked about that. And but what happened that night when we went home is he coughed and, he coughed up a little bit of blood and Okay. Anytime anything like that happens, you have to be straight back to the hospital.

Dr Nat Green: 11:26

Yeah, of course.

Kimberly Stevens: 11:27

So we took him straight back and they looked at his x-ray from that same day and you could see that his lungs were a bit white. And what they told us was that he had pneumonia. He had developed pneumonia. Okay. And so put back into hospital and most pneumonia is bacterial pneumonia, so that's what sort of, most people I guess that you hear about get pneumonia. That's what they get. And it's treated, I think, quite readily with antibiotics. But Ethan had something called aspidilis pneumonia, which is fungal. Okay. Which they didn't realize at the time. And to take the culture and then grow it, I think took about seven days by the time they. Found out really what it was, and then could get him the correct medication. He had gone downhill a lot and he was already intubated by then. Okay. And on a lot of medication to Yeah. Make him relaxed and so we weren't really communicating too much with him. Yeah. So he spent two weeks intubated trying to get the medication into him. But he just kept declining and they told us that aspidilis is gets into your lungs and it really just sits in there and it's hard. It's like any fungus, any mold, it's hard to shift. So then he got put on life support and stayed on there for three weeks.

Dr Nat Green: 12:59

Oh goodness. And.

Kimberly Stevens: 13:01

By that time my sister and my brother-in-law had come back down. And Michael and I were already doing shifts at the hospital where I was there all day. He was there all night and so Ethan was never alone. And in between that our other son, Jettt was down in Brisbane as well, and with both of his grandparents, grandmothers. And I would go back and see Jett at night and then Jett would spend the days with Michael and he would visit Ethan every afternoon, which was a really tough journey for him.

Dr Nat Green: 13:34

Oh, absolutely. And and I see this so often that. A lot of people that I know that I talk to live in rural and regional areas. So it adds this other layer on top of what is already a horrendously traumatic time that people have to be away from home, put your life on hold and, everything stalls with your focus, having to be on, on one child and then the other child. It's, a really challenging road on top of what you're already dealing with.

Kimberly Stevens: 14:10

Yeah, it was tough. It was our family's great. They all rallied around and we had people there and the grandmas were cooking and cleaning as grandmas do. Yeah. And yeah, it just, yeah it was tough. And I think for me, how I got through that time was just eat, sleep. Rinse, repeat. Yeah. Just the routine was get up at five in the morning, have a shower, walk to the hospital, have a handover with Michael, be there for the day with Ethan, Jackie that's my sister. She would bring food and make sure that we were fed and we were just waiting for Ethan to, turn a corner to start getting better on the life support. And he had a number of lifesaving procedures in that three weeks as well. Oh, okay. Which every time that happens, you have this meeting with this group of doctors. And you have to make a choice and so it's trauma on top of trauma. On top of trauma. And then towards the end, what happened was they had done another scan on Ethan and one of his lungs was no longer viable. They were meeting with the team of doctors to see if they could save the other one, have one removed. And then we got called into the meeting, which we thought was gonna be about saving a lung. And that was the meeting where they told us that neither of his lungs were viable. And because he had cancer and chemo, the, a transplant was not an option. Yeah. And so yeah, we rang, my sister rang, I tried to ring Yeah. Some friends to see if they wanted to come and say goodbye. We were told we had a, couple of days and yeah, so the next day we had about, I don't know, seven or eight families fly down. And most of them were friends of Ethan's and their families. And. So the day they were all there that day and then the next morning he was passing that day'cause he was just declining. Yeah. And yeah, so we got them to come in the morning. Then family spent time with him. And then Ethan was an outdoors kid, so there's a, veranda, a really beautiful verandah at the children's hospital, and we chose to have him pass away out there with some sunshine and the wind. Yes, Jett and Michael and I were with Ethan when he passed, and then Jett and I got to wash Ethan. Which was, yeah, pretty tough, but nice to spend the time with him without all of those things attached.

Dr Nat Green: 17:05

Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 17:07

Just nice to see him without all of that medical stuff around him. Yeah. Yeah. And then we had to leave the hospital, which was really awful too because none of us wanted to press the elevator button. Like none of us wanted to leave'cause we knew that we wouldn't be coming back. Yeah. Ethan was no longer there or going to be there. And yeah, so that was, it was a bit surreal to be honest. We just, yeah, we just yeah. And three days later was Ethan's 14th birthday.

Dr Nat Green: 17:40

Sorry. So the first, that first birthday or Christmas, whatever is always hard, but to be so soon. Yeah. What a huge, big hurdle to navigate so, so quickly.

Kimberly Stevens: 17:53

Yeah. I think that was when I first got outta bed because everyone was like, we need to go and do something for Ethan. And we're at South Bank. I was like, okay. I remember walking out of the doors of the apartment and I really, I stalled and I stopped because I felt like making new memories without Ethan was not right. It didn't feel right to be stepping outside into the sun when he wasn't there. Yeah. Yeah, that was my first challenge

Dr Nat Green: 18:26

yeah. Yeah. And one of many, more such a awful time and thank you so much for sharing such a difficult experience. Yeah. It means a lot that you felt that you could do that and, I know it's always gonna be challenging to talk about that, but Yeah. Yeah. It's also really important to, to share that part of your story so people understand that this can happen to anyone.

Kimberly Stevens: 18:59

Yeah, it definitely can. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 19:01

Yeah. And that it's really important to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. To, not just shut down and, not share these things because grief is, just as important a part of life.

Kimberly Stevens: 19:21

Yeah. And I think for me, that was one of my I've, because of my studies as a psychologist and then my experience working I didn't realize it at the time, but since then I've realized that I'm really grateful I had this what I call this. I had this really big basket of tools. I knew what was available to me and I could pick and choose what I wanted outta that basket because I knew what would work for me. And not everything works for everybody the same way. And there's heaps of tools that I didn't pick outta the basket because they either wouldn't fit into my life or I didn't think that'd work for me, or but one of the, first thing that I did that I knew really deeply was I needed to feel everything. And I knew that if I didn't, like we we know that holding or trying to lock feelings outside the door or holding grief and sadness and worry and anger in our bodies depletes our immune system and yes, makes us feel more isolated and weighs us down and, can be really heavy. And so I just knew that for me. To get through it and to still be there for my family. I needed to allow it to come and to sit and be there as long as it needed to be there. I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna have it for as long as it needs to be there. Yes. And eventually I will make friends, is probably not the right word, but integrate it with me and find a way to integrate it so that I can start learning to carry it. And that's what I did. That was the journey that I started to take. And that looked like staying in bed a lot for at least six months. And crying a lot all the time. It felt like I was crying all every minute of every day. And I. That was part of the journey for me to be open to feeling everything as hard as it was. I just, I knew that I, knew that was something that I had to do to get through.

Dr Nat Green: 21:42

Yeah. And I really like that you've, said that because so many times we hear people say, how long does grief last? And they wanna know, and it's, there is no timeframe and it takes as long as it takes. But I also love that you said that you really knew that you needed to give yourself permission to feel, because when we shut that down, or try and repress it or listen to other people around us thinking, oh it's time to move on. It just stays stuck in our nervous system. And as you said, it'll come out as all sorts of immune issues, chronic health conditions, all sorts of things that'll come back to bite us down the track. Yeah. Yeah. So even though you obviously we're already a psychologist, so you had this basket of tools, I know that was still a very different experience to being in the grief and experiencing it firsthand than it was to being a psychologist, helping others, wasn't it?

Kimberly Stevens: 22:50

Absolutely. I, have told this story a few times that it was in the, within the first couple of days of me in that apartment I, don't think I left the room until Ethan's birthday. Possibly had a shower, I can't remember. But I just was in the dark crying for a few days and, I remember thinking like, I just remember having this memory of as a psychologist, I have, I had seen a number of families that had lost children in my clinical room, and I just had this feeling wash over me of, I don't know if I helped them now that I had this firsthand experience of what losing a child is actually I just didn't know. I just was like, oh, I don't think I helped them. I, just didn't know what I didn't know. And if I could sit down with those families now, it would be a very, different conversation. And. Just, yeah, like I, I know I was a good listener and I tried to help the way that I understood. But I, now I really understand.

Dr Nat Green: 24:04

Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 24:05

Yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 24:06

A, level, you couldn't have really been expected to understand, but you didn't know, as you said, you didn't know what you didn't know. So now, what would you say are some of the key learnings for a parent who has lost a child in those early stages?

Kimberly Stevens: 24:27

Look, I think everybody's story is different. Every child loss story is different. Yeah. And I I do feel like losing a child is that great equalizer in terms of when I'm with another parent that's lost a child, we have this immediate. Connection and understanding and feeling of we don't have to explain ourselves because we both get it, even though our stories are really different. Everybody's journey is then going to be different as well, because we've all had different upbringings, we've all got different belief systems, we've all got different families and different friends, and we live in different parts of the world where sometimes there's, face-to-face support in the place that you live. Sometimes the nearest support is 200 kilometers away. Yeah. And there's also differences with sudden passings compared to like with Ethan with illness where I got to say goodbye. And I wasn't grateful for that at first, but I've learned to be really grateful that I was there for him then. And so I think, this is where I come back to that basket of tools that I feel like, and what I've realized is that not many people. Know that there's a basket of tools. There's this big basket and people go and see a, therapist, and the therapist and that person work together, and you work out those strategies together based on that person's story. And that's the work that gets done in a session, but that person that's in this session doesn't get exposed to this bigger basket where there might be something else in there that they haven't discussed in therapy that might fit with them. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's so i'm actually gonna do this next year, I'm gonna start doing Zoom sessions with the parents on the app to let them know about this basket and what's in there and what's available. And not just what's in there, but how each of them can help, how each of those tools and strategies can help them. And then also how to actually put them in place, how to use them. And then that gives the parent the autonomy to choose themselves, to choose what will fit with them. Not everything in that basket will fit with everybody. But coming back to your question, sorry.'cause I digressed.

Dr Nat Green: 26:58

That's okay. That was really valuable and I know we'll talk a lot more about the app because your app is amazing and the whole concept, but Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 27:07

I think at the beginning you're just really in shock. Yeah it's, really it's very traumatic and the definition of trauma is anything that's overwhelming and of course, child loss really ticks that box and definitely. So I think in those early days you just have to get through how ever you can get through and hopefully people have got good people around them to help them to, cook food for them to come and play with their other kids if they've got other kids to help them just, to sit with them in their messy grief and not expect them to do anything except do that that's really the most helpful thing in those early days is to actually feel supported so that you can just be a mess. That you don't have to get up every day and keep going because you literally can't. And Yeah. I think for parents. Yeah, hopefully that has been the experience. I know from some Facebook pages it's not their experience and I really feel for those parents that don't have that support around them and hopefully that's where the app hopefully will help too, where people can build their own local support networks, where they can be with people that understand and connect with them.

Dr Nat Green: 28:29

Essential. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so found this terrible space that you were in and, trying to work out what to do and how to navigate it. And then you said after six months you did manage to get back to work, and then you started, of course really committing to what can I do? So tell us a little bit more about that part of the journey and, getting to where you are now, where you've developed this amazing app.

Kimberly Stevens: 29:03

Thank you. Yeah, so I went back after six months for financial reasons, which most parents do. Of course not because, not, certainly not'cause I was ready. No. But I did work with this wonderful company that let me just go back really slowly and see if I was ready. I wasn't sure if I was ready to hold space for somebody else while I was also trying to hold space for me. And that's the nature of the job. So I didn't want to be letting people down. So I just went back really slowly to see if it was okay for me. And it was which was really good. And but I put boundaries in place there. I asked not to see any parents that had lost children and I stopped seeing children'cause I used to see a lot of children, so that was a bit difficult for me. So I I put some boundaries in there to allow me to be able to go back. And as soon as I went back. I just had this overwhelming feeling of I wanna do something to help bereaved parents. And because I just, I knew there wasn't much around. Yeah. Ethan's hospital's got a peer mentor program. There's a, there's quite a bit available in the cities. But once you step outside of there there's not much at all. And yeah not for building, local networks and getting the support that we need. And but what I did, what I actually did was I, I decided I wanted help in some way. I wasn't sure what that was gonna be, but I knew it wasn't gonna be one-on-one because I didn't think that I was gonna be okay to be in that hot seat. Yeah. I'd be crying all the time, which is not gonna be helpful for the other person. So I was like, how can I help but on a bigger scale that doesn't have me in the hot seat? And so what I did was I jumped onto some Facebook pages that I was on for bereaved parents, and I just started reading. I started reading people's stories. I started reading what was missing. I was looking for gaps in service or what was missing that parents wanted or needed that wasn't already available. I didn't wanna replicate anything. I, because there's already so many bereaved parents out there doing lots of wonderful things, wonderful initiatives to help. And so I didn't wanna do anything that was already there. And, so then as I read, two things came about. One was that for example, there was a parent that reached out to say that she wasn't doing very well. And that did anybody,'cause the Facebook pages are all international. Okay. Yes. It's everybody and so she reached out to say, I live in this particular place. I'm really not doing very well. Can anybody catch up with coffee for coffee with me? And so I followed that thread for a few days. That person wasn't in my country. And so I followed it and what happened was over a few days or what happened immediately was a lots of other parents on the app jumped onto to support that parent. Through messages. Yeah. But then over a couple of days there was another parent that said, oh, I can catch up with you, but I can't do it till next weekend and I live an hour away. And so I was like, okay, we need to be able to catch up locally. And as soon as we can, if we if we're feeling like we really need it, we need connections now that we might be able to just say, Hey, do you wanna go for coffee? And then you can go, yeah. It might not be today, but it might be tomorrow. And the other theme that I saw was lots of parents losing their support networks.

Dr Nat Green: 32:33

Okay.

Kimberly Stevens: 32:34

Yeah. So this for me is really common and it's, I see it I read it a lot. And I think a bit of it is we withdraw of course, because we, it's hard for us to socialize and hard for us to feel like we connect with anybody anymore. And we, it's hard for us to feel like anybody understands us.

Dr Nat Green: 32:55

I would imagine that the support networks you already have in place, some of them aren't sure what to say or how to deal with it, so they withdraw a little. Little by little as well. So you've got that added Yeah, absolutely. Layer happening. Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 33:11

Yeah. We withdraw. They aren't sure how to help us. We aren't even sure what we need Exactly. So people try and help us how they can, and then I and for some people, grief is challenging. For some people to support grief is really challenging. They might be triggered by their own stuff or they might not be comfortable sitting in a grief space. So it becomes tough for them to provide the support that we might need. And but I also saw some parents losing support networks where family or friends actually retreated, are saying, I actually can't support you anymore. This doesn't fit with me. Okay. And I why haven't you moved on yet? Why aren't you better yet? Why aren't you coming out with me on Friday night? And so how we talk about that is after grief, even though we're adults and we think we have our friends and family network, because as children we evolved through that. And as adults we think we have that. Friends and family network. Grief certainly changes that. And what happens is if you're open to it you, do meet other people that then become part of your life that can fit into that grief space with you and hold grief with you and other people that were friends or colleagues may drop off. And, it's not, and that's not about blame, it's just about us being willing to have other people in our life to and of course we want the people that we've loved all our life and have been friends with, but if they can't hold our grief with us, then. It's not gonna work. And that's tough. That's more loss.

Dr Nat Green: 34:54

Oh, definitely. And I think that would be a very challenging decision as you bless them and wish them well, but also realize that's an energy drain, that you don't have capacity to hold. Yeah. And that, has to, be okay to give yourself permission to do, because as you beautifully said you, can't be in that space with someone who can't hold that space for you. Yeah. You've got enough to deal with when you're in the moment there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what started to, you started to notice these two key themes? So this local support needed to be done as soon as possible in person

Kimberly Stevens: 35:36

Yeah. And

Dr Nat Green: 35:37

that people were losing support networks.

Kimberly Stevens: 35:39

Yeah. So we needed to be able to build our own local support networks. Of people that we could guarantee would understand us. And that's another grieving parent. And that's somebody with the lived experience. Yeah. Yeah, I was sitting with a friend one day talking this through and we got talking and then the app idea came up and I was like I'm gonna build, I'm gonna build an app and it's gonna be a social connection app. It's gonna function a bit like a dating app. Without the dating. So finding people locally, being able to read a person's profile. So in the app you can read a bit about the parent and a bit about the child, their child or children that have passed away. And you can connect them through there. So yeah, and I've been the type of person where if I say something, I usually try and keep going till I get to the end of that and finish it off. So I said out loud, I'm gonna build an app. I said it to my sister. So once I'd said it to her, I was on the journey. Wow.

Dr Nat Green: 36:43

I look at that and I go, oh my God. Oh yeah, I'm just gonna build an app. I've had a thought about building an app as well, and then when I looked at all the things that were involved, I went, oh, I think I was kidding myself. So I love that you made that decision and you kept going.

Kimberly Stevens: 36:57

Yeah, I just yeah, it it gave me an avenue to, put my grief into Yeah. To channel my grief to do something for others, which is psychologists, that's what we like to do. Yeah. We like to help. And so it ticked all those boxes for me. And I'm also I love learning. So even though it was challenging,'cause my grief brain was really cloudy. Yeah. And still is cloudy. It was a bit of a challenge for me to then learn about what, how to build an app. How to design an app for what the first steps are.'cause I knew nothing about it either. But yeah, I, it just gave me a chance to reengage and I might link that if I can, to a bit of a turning point that I had. Which links in with the app. About nine months after Ethan passed, I was sitting outside at our house and I just felt awful. I felt heavy, I felt drained, I felt low. And I just was sitting there, I was actually outside on a lounge and I was like I just need to do a bit of reflection. And I thought, I don't, this feels really awful. And then my brain went to, okay, let's say I've got 30 years of life left. I just threw the number 30 out there. I was like, let's say I've got 30 years left. I, and then it came to me I don't wanna feel like this for 30 years. This is awful. And then straight away as well, I was like, if I continue on this path, I'm either gonna get really sick, my body's gonna get really sick. My mind could potentially get sick. And I'm just not gonna have any energy to do anything. And I, have another son, Jett and he was 13 at the time and. I was like, I wanna be in his life. I wanna be fit enough to go and do what he wants to do. I wanna be healthy enough to be active with him. I wanna be excited about the stuff that he does. I, want him to know that I didn't give up I wanted to be the best Mu m that I could be for him. Yeah, of course. And that was a big turning point for me where I was like, okay, this is a no brainer. And at the time it was either existing or living, that's what I was labeling it. And I was like I was, I had been just existing, just trudging through the days and I was like I actually need to start re-engaging. I need to start living. And then this big kind of light bulb moment came where I was like, Ooh, I've made the decision, but now I'm actually responsible for what comes next. It's on me. It's all on me for what happens next and how I navigate this. And that felt really tough. It was like, I wanna make this choice, but I need to actually then action it. And that started me on the journey of re-engaging just little bit by little bit. Even if that meant drinking more water. Talking to a friend, just parts of reengaging instead of locking myself away. And so the app kind of really helped there with me being able to sit up and be at a computer and engage my brain and yeah. And I had to, then I had to start talking to people, which was hard'cause I was just bawling. I was I cry every time I talk about the app to somebody. But I've just, I've learned to invite my tears along. I invited them along. Three years ago when I started this journey, I sat, and this might sound weird, but I said, righto tears come along for the ride. You're with me. You come out all the time anyway. I can't shut you down. You're welcome. And so they're just with me all the time. And so when they come I can sit with it. I'm not trying to push them away or block them out or pretend that I'm okay.'cause that's awful too. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 41:02

I think that's so healthy and to, see you doing that and openly having the tears and being okay, that's important.'cause it's all part of the journey. And if you just pretend everything's fine, that's crap.'cause it's not.

Kimberly Stevens: 41:17

Yeah. It makes you feel worse too.

Dr Nat Green: 41:20

Of course it does. Yeah. I love the way you talk about that, that you've invited the tears along and they're there for the ride. The good, the bad, the ugly.

Kimberly Stevens: 41:28

Yeah. They were following me along and I was like, righto, come up the front jump in the front seat and we'll do this together.

Dr Nat Green: 41:36

And I think that it's beautiful that. Jett became your inspiration to move it forward as well.

Kimberly Stevens: 41:43

Yeah, yeah. And it's been, it's really tough for him. It's tough to watch him without his brother. Yeah. He's in grade 11 this year and okay. It's been a bit of a journey and he's got really good mates and good families around him. We live in a small town, so you know, he's probably got about 15 other Mums in town here, but he could drop in on if he needed to,

Dr Nat Green: 42:04

which is great. So when you are not having a good day, there's others who can support. Yeah. It takes a village to raise a child as we know.

Kimberly Stevens: 42:11

Yeah. Actually I have a friend another, Mum on the app actually, and she, the quote's on my website, but it's from her her name's Angela and she said, just like it takes a village to raise a child, it actually takes a village to grieve one as well. And that's so true. Yeah. It's really true. Yeah, definitely. We need people even though we might not behave that way.

Dr Nat Green: 42:34

Yeah. And, like we might wanna push them away at times, but yeah, it's, it is important to share, the load, and share the good, the bad and the not so good. Yeah. Yeah. Kimberly, I know you came up with the concept and the idea, but it was out of left field and you thought, I dunno how to do this. So you didn't do it in isolation, so would you share. The name of the company and the group behind bringing this to life.

Kimberly Stevens: 43:09

Sure. What happened was I designed the app and then I started looking for funding. I spent nine months looking for funding. And there wasn't any, there was none. For grief and loss. I looked in tech startups women in business. I just couldn't tick all those boxes at the front of the applications to get through. And the couple that I did get through, I got knocked back on pretty quickly. So then I just sat with it. I was like, I think this is as far as I'm going. I was I can't go any further. It costs a lot of money to build an app. And I didn't have it. And then what happened was there's a company called, the International Legends of League, Troy Byers. So they came and played a memorial game for Ethan the year that he passed. And I had let them know that I was building the app. I'd kept in touch with them and they rang me towards the end of that nine months of looking for funding. And they said, we wanna come back and play another memorial game for Ethan. And we'd like to launch the app there. And I was like, that's awesome, but I don't have the money and the app's not built, so I can't launch it. And Troy Byers, he said to me, come and give a speech at the, sponsors and team dinner and we'll launch the funding. And public speaking is not my forte. And, but what I've learned with this app process is I've just, I've made a promise to myself to just say yes to everything. And so I said yes, and I said, and I'll work this out and I'll so, I did the speech and they kicked the funding off that night, and it was just with a GoFundMe because I didn't. Alright. Funding avenues. And so over that, next few months, I got quite a bit of funding, but it still wasn't enough to build the app and. What I said to Troy that weekend was, I'd love to find an Australian app company'cause I, I would like to support Australia and yeah, if you know of any, can you let me know? And he rang me a few days later and he said, ah, there's this guy called Graham Bradshaw, he's the director of Mining Skills Australia. He might not be able to help you directly, but he could maybe point you in the right direction. Do you wanna talk to him? So I was like, yes, please. Knowing that every conversation comes with tears, and so then Graham and I caught up on the phone just a couple of days later, and within 15 minutes of chatting to him, he just said, I want to build the app with you. Wow. And so I was crying, obviously, of course. Very grateful. And I just had to put it to his tech team to see if that was something that they could fit in. So he rang me back the next morning saying that yes, they were keen to do it. And I remember just saying to him so that team there, that's Motion Curve. Okay. That's their animation studio. Within Mining Skills Australia and I, remember saying to Graham. Because I thought about it overnight. I was like, this man doesn't know me, doesn't why is he helping me? I was so grateful, but it wasn't what I was used to. And the next day when he rang to say Yes, I just said to him can I just ask why? Why do you wanna help? And all he said was, I've got a son. And that was enough. That was what he said and I was obviously crying again. But yeah, and that's where we started. We built the app together and they still update the app and manage the app on the technical side. And then I do the administration side of the app engaging with the parents. Wow. Very grateful to them. Yes.

Dr Nat Green: 46:30

I'll link that in the show notes as well. So Mining Skills Australia and Motion Curve, the animation studios. Yeah. So a huge thank you to them who've made this possible.

Kimberly Stevens: 46:41

Yeah, They're amazing. They're very compassionate. Lovely, lovely people.

Dr Nat Green: 46:45

Excellent. Yeah. So tell me where the app's at now then?

Kimberly Stevens: 46:50

So we launched in April, early this year. At the moment we've got parents on the app in five different countries. So Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America, and Germany. And I just had a quick look last night at, so on the app, how it works is there's a map on there, so there's live geolocation, so you can jump on the map. Move around the map with your, fingers and go all over the world. And every parent on the app is a dot and so you can click on that dot and then the parents' profile picture pops up and you can press on that. Then you can go on and read about the parent and their child or children that have passed. And then you can send them a connection request if you wanna connect with them. And then once that connection request is approved there's a messenger section on the app as well. The messenger page where a messenger will pop up between you and you can start chatting. So you can also do group messages. So in my local town here. We have a group there's about five of us on there at the moment And then we've got a wider group for my region, which spans about, I don't know, maybe 450 kilometers. Okay. So we've got a few more parents on the app from that region as well. And so far we've caught up for coffee. We've also done a private yoga session together. And now we just we're catching up whenever we want to. And that's really what the app's purpose is. I'm a bit old school and I know that the depth of connection when you are sitting face to face with somebody and their physical presence is much deeper and therefore more healing and more connecting, more inclusive, and so yeah I just really want parents to start to find people in their area to, to connect with and, start catching up when and if they feel ready. But the app is a really nice way to, to meet. Without that kind of face-to-face interaction first. So just getting to know somebody first before you make that choice to meet up.

Dr Nat Green: 48:57

Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 48:59

And you can use it when you're on holidays so you can come up with the app wherever you are. If you wanna chat with somebody I just jumped on last night and had a look at the messages. So since we launched, there's over 2,200 messages have been sent on the app.

Dr Nat Green: 49:14

Oh my goodness. That's amazing. So that's between parents, so many people's lives that you've already impacted and it's only launched in April.

Kimberly Stevens: 49:23

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm trying to spread the word. That's my mission at the moment is to get the word out across the world that it's available.

Dr Nat Green: 49:31

Yeah. And that's, really what I really wanted was for you to share your story, but to know how we can also spread the word and help get this message out.'cause I honestly think this mission is huge and so important.

Kimberly Stevens: 49:46

Thank you

Dr Nat Green: 49:47

oh, my pleasure. Thank you. So let us know what. What people need to do to be able to get the app and, and how it can work for them.

Kimberly Stevens: 49:58

So it's available on Android and Apple just in your app stores. So under Kids, connecting Parents, there's a webpage as well called Kids Connecting parents.com. And so you can download the app. It does have a 99 cents a month subscription cost, that's Australian dollars. And that's to help pay for app updates. This securing the app. Hosting the app, all those technical side of things that have to happen to make it a safe, sustainable app. And but we do have some funding. I know that some parents never actually go back to work after losing a child. And I don't want money to be a barrier to connecting. I do have some funding that if anybody wants to make use of that no questions asked just email me. So my email is on the Facebook page, the Instagram page, and the webpage. Okay. But it's just kimberly@kidsconnectingparents.com. So just send me an email, let me know that you wanna use the funding. And you'll be, put on the app for free for five years. And yeah, so please reach out if you want to. I have a few parents using that, utilizing that funding, which is great. Yeah, if you wanna check it out for any therapists please have a look. This obviously doesn't replace therapy. That's a really important part of the process. Yeah. But this can be really helpful for those in between therapy times where people need that extra bit of support. And people want that lived experience, connection talking to other people that get it and understand. Yeah. But please reach out to me if you've got any questions. Really happy to chat. Happy to. I've actually been showing quite a few organizations the app live. So through Zoom calls, I can just share my screen and share the app and Excellent. Showing them what it can do. And so they're, they've been grief organizations or other organizations that support bereaved parents in other ways. Yeah, that's been really good as well.

Dr Nat Green: 52:03

Oh what a, great way to get. The message out even further. So I'll definitely link everything up in the show notes so everyone can see it. And I know a number of people in my network are very keen to hear about this. I've been mentioning it to some of them. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure. So one thing I'd really love you to do, if that's okay, is I would love for you to share with us a bit about Ethan.

Kimberly Stevens: 52:29

Okay. He was very energetic very active boy, so yeah, wasn't inside much lived his life outside climbing, running, jumping, throwing something, kicking something. At one stage in our backyard we had three trampolines. Three, one was breaking down and we'd bought a new one to replace that one, and we had another small one. He would just jump between all three with his football. And yeah, just, just really energetic. I always say you, one thing he taught me was about time, and I could never get him to hurry ever Like even I tested it on taking him to one of his friend's birthdays, parties when he was younger's. I was like, are he sure he's gonna wanna get there early? And no we just would get somewhere right on time and I would say to him we gotta go get ready let's go. And as Mums we wanna be on time and, and, but he was just like, we'll get there, Mum. We will get there. And we always did. And at the time I was frustrated, but when I look back I'm like, ah, thanks mate for teaching me about time and not to stress about it. And he was really fit. We always talk about, we don't know where he got his he just was really committed to his fitness and committed to his football and ate really well. And he trained every single day on his own mostly. And we don't know where he got that from. We certainly didn't teach it to him so that was all inbuilt for him. Yeah, he did a lot of good things that I didn't find out about until after he'd passed which was a shame. But I, think as a Mum it would stop you worrying if you knew that your child did all these good things. Yeah. And so I I've made it a bit of a mission of mine when I see another child doing a good thing I'll tell that parent.

Dr Nat Green: 54:26

Oh, beautiful.

Kimberly Stevens: 54:27

So they know, like I've heard that Ethan stood, out to bullies and I've had parents reach out to say that their child had told them that Ethan had stood up for them. And I didn't hear about that when he was here. Yeah. And I wish I had of, and so those things have changed for me too and he loved his brother a lot, even though they had the normal sibling relationship. Yeah. He would've done anything for him and he was just, he was a good kid and yeah. Taught us a lot of lessons in parenting and, which I'm grateful for.

Dr Nat Green: 55:04

Yeah. It sounds like even though it was only 13 years, they were 13, very full well lived years with lots of beautiful lessons. Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 55:14

They were full years. We did a lot of travel for sport, which was great.'Cause we've got a lot of memories. Beautiful. With Ethan, lots of as annoyed as they were when I took off the photos, we now have lots of photos of all of those journeys and, adventures yeah.

Dr Nat Green: 55:31

Oh, that's so special. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful part of Ethan as well with us and our listeners. So is there anything else, any other major learnings or anything else you'd really like to share with our listeners?

Kimberly Stevens: 55:53

Look, I think if there's any grieving parents listening please don't think that I had this basket of tools and just picked things out. I, it was trial and error for me too I think just the differences. I just knew they were there and I still had trial and error trialing different things and seeing if they would work for me and help me. A couple of the things that I did over time was one was I started growing a garden because I wanted to. Prove that I could keep something alive because I couldn't keep Ethan alive and putting my nurturing into something. Yeah. And so that was all they're just kinda small challenges that helped me to, in I talk about integrating grief. I don't talk about moving on from it or letting it go, or it's about integrating and the grief doesn't diminish, but our emotional muscles to hold it get stronger. And it's about just finding ways to grow those emotional muscles. Whether that's getting more sleep, whether it's talking to a friend or whether it's drinking more water. Just the really simple things to start with. Those really basic needs that we have just for our body and our brain to function that bit better before we take the next steps which might be returning to the shops because that took me 12 months to go back to the one shop that we have that Ethan's been in since he was a kid. I couldn't go back there. I would just leave crying all the time.

Dr Nat Green: 57:31

Yeah. So the triggers and the reminders don't go away. It's more how you can integrate that and carry that when you are ready.

Kimberly Stevens: 57:39

Yeah. Not doing it all at once, but starting really small and building up to those things that you need to do. Going to the shop is something that we probably need to do to buy groceries. We can do click and collect, we can send someone else to get our stuff. With the view that eventually. We might get back there, when I first started going back, I had a jumper on a hoodie, a hat so nobody would recognize me. Yeah. And it's still tough. It's still tough for me four years on to go to our one shop. And see people and I know they just wanna know. I'm going, okay. That's not always the answer.

Dr Nat Green: 58:19

And I think now I really like that, that you are being open and honest and vulnerable and sharing that this is how, this is the reality, not this perfect picture that some people think that they need to paint. Yeah. Because it's a long, shitty, hard, tough road and it takes as long as it takes. And, like you said, it's about integrating it and that could be the rest of your life. Yeah. To integrate.

Kimberly Stevens: 58:49

Yeah. It'll certainly be lifelong for me. Yeah,

Dr Nat Green: 58:53

yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And there'll be good days and bad days and a few steps forward and 10 steps back. And I think they're the things that this app will allow you to do and share with so many others who get it at a different level to what I get it, or other therapists get it, or coaches or whoever's helping you. Doesn't mean you can't help, but it's at a different level. And I think there's definitely room for both.

Kimberly Stevens: 59:25

So do I. Absolutely. The therapeutic setting is really important and adds a, lot of value and is certainly part of the journey. And this is more that kind of, I guess less clinical. Yeah. If I could put it that way. Just a less clinical connection and support system.

Dr Nat Green: 59:48

Yeah. Yeah. Oh I would hope that you are very proud of all that you've achieved with this app and now seeing this come to life and this journey that you started on, not really knowing where it would lead is now real. Yeah. It's happening. So as you reflect on that and really look at what lies ahead, where do you see the app going in the future and, the mission you're on?

Kimberly Stevens: 1:00:22

Look when I first thought about the app, I thought that I was gonna build this great app and throw it out into the universe and then step back. That was my initial plan, I was just gonna of it was gonna run itself and it was just gonna be this great thing hasn't turned out that way. What I've had to learn along the way and challenge myself with is that because I'm the founder of the app and the designer, I'm now administering it. And so for me that I was like, oh, I'm asking these parents to connect. I've gotta do this too. This is me. I've gotta lead the way here because I'm asking other people to do it. So now I'm doing it too. and and I have, and even though it was challenging I'm so grateful. I have met so many wonderful parents, and just the connection and the understanding that we have, even though we've never met each other in person, and when you do meet up with someone in person, it's like you've known them already. It's almost like this instant connection of you are already comfortable. You already, you've known them. I think that's where I said grief is that equalizer. Yeah. Where there's no pretense. It's just take me as I am and you know that other parents gonna be thinking the same thing. And so there's no judgment, there's no The elephant's not in the room. It's, you're holding onto it. It's between you, you're talking about it, you're throwing it to each other it's, out in the open. And I want parents on the app to start reaching out in that way. And, but I also understand like some parents will be on the app purely. To see that there's other parents around them. Yeah. Just knowing that there's other parents in your town can make you feel less isolated, so they may never reach out.

Dr Nat Green: 1:02:13

Yeah.

Kimberly Stevens: 1:02:14

They might just be happy at that level and then you've got other parents that are probably further along in their journey and they wanna help others so they're, happy to meet up and connect and catch up. And so yeah, I see the app as, more parents get on there across the world. And there's two towns non, one's in the northern territory one's in Queensland and they're very remote towns and they've been on the app for months and I really feel for them'cause it's like I just want someone else on the app for them. Yeah. I want another parent to pop up so that they can actually start connecting and really grateful that these parents are hanging in there and waiting it out. And so as new spreads hoping more parents jump on and and that we all start building these support networks in our own local towns. And yeah. And then next year I'm gonna start those zooms where I'm going to talk about that basket of tools and hopefully that will bring parents in to just even meeting each other in those Zoom calls. Where they can then see each other's faces live and talking, and then maybe that's when they feel a little bit more comfortable to reach out in the app and then connect further. So it's all steps and stages, I think, for connecting and hopefully the app gives parents each step along the way if they just wanna sit at that step where they can see other parents on the app. That's fine. That's gives them comfort. Great. Yeah. Other parents that wanna catch up outside of their fantastic.

Dr Nat Green: 1:03:47

And even as you said it, the two that are very remote, that you feel like, oh, you poor things. There's no one in there. Being able to link them on a Zoom call might be enough. Yeah. Until it grows in those areas. So yeah. I really love yeah, where you're taking it and yeah. And wish you all the very best. And please, if any of our listeners are out there thinking, oh my God, what a great idea, which I'm sure they will be, and you wanna do that and pay it forward, please reach out to myself or Kimberly. I'll link that up in the show notes. And yeah, the more we spread the word, the better.'cause this is such a valuable resource. Thank you, so much, Kimberly.

Kimberly Stevens: 1:04:33

Thank you. Thank you for your time, Nat, and for Yeah, wanting to talk about it and for holding space for me today. Thank you.

Dr Nat Green: 1:04:39

Oh, thank you for sharing your story. It really was very beautiful and I really wanna honor you and your family. And Ethan, thank you. Thank you for joining me in this episode of Growing Tall Poppies. It is my deepest hope that today's episode may have inspired and empowered you to step fully into your post-traumatic growth, so that you can have absolute clarity around who you are, what matters the most to you, and to assist you to release your negative emotions. And regulate your nervous system so you can fully thrive. New episodes are published every Tuesday, and I hope you'll continue to join us as we explore both the strategies and the personal qualities required to fully live a life of post-traumatic growth and to thrive. So if it feels aligned to you and really resonates, then I invite you to hit subscribe and it would mean the world to us. If you could share this episode with others who you feel may benefit too, you may also find me on Instagram at Growing Tall Poppies and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green. Remember, every moment is an opportunity to look for the lessons and to learn and increase your ability to live the life you desire and deserve. So for now, stay connected. Stay inspired. Stand tall like the tall poppy you are, and keep shining your light brightly in the world. Bye for now.