Growing Tall Poppies : Thrive After Trauma

Burnout Isn’t Inevitable: Stop Pushing Through with Dr. Hayley D Quinn

• Dr Natalie Green • Season 2 • Episode 81

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In this deeply validating episode of Growing Tall Poppies: Thrive After Trauma, Dr. Nat Green welcomes back Dr. Hayley D Quinn—mindset & wellbeing coach, speaker, author, host of Welcome to Self, and former clinical psychologist/past president of Compassionate Mind Australia.

Hayley opens up about:

  • Her decision to leave psychology registration and go all-in on coaching, speaking, and writing
  • How a late ADHD & autism diagnosis (at 52) reframed decades of “pushing through” and perfectionism
  • The truth about burnout—why you can’t “work your way out of it,” why prevention is kinder (and cheaper) than recovery, and how to front-load self-care before busy seasons
  • Practical systems for a neurodivergent-friendly life: daily self-check-ins, colour-coded calendars, hydration & meal supports, and outsourcing that protects energy
  • Why self-compassion is the engine of sustainable success (including insights from Compassion Focused Therapy and the “share from the scar, not the wound” principle)
  • The power—and limits—of lived experience in coaching, and how to stay ethical and safe in the “wild west” of the industry
  • Designing a values-aligned life on the coast, rebuilding identity post-career pivot, and celebrating milestones (including 100+ podcast episodes on Welcome to Self)

We also celebrate Hayley’s new book From Self-Neglect to Self-Compassion: A Compassionate Guide to Creating a Thriving Life—pre-orders open 18 November with special bonuses for wait-listers, and publication early February (perfect timing to “be your own Valentine” and rebuild your relationship with yourself).

You’ll learn:

  • How A simple daily check-in changes everything
  • How to spot the signs of smouldering stress before it becomes a fire
  • Setting Boundaries for “urgent” requests (that protect you and still serve)
  • Why front-loading self-care makes busy seasons survivable
  • How receiving help can be an act of compassion—for you and for others

Links & Resources

If this episode resonates with you then I'd love for you to hit SUBSCRIBE so you can keep updated with each new episode as soon as it's released and we'd be most grateful if you would give us a RATING as well. You can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drnatgreen/ or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrNatalieGreen

Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Dr Nat Green:

Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I'm so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through post-traumatic growth and not just survive, but to thrive after trauma. Through our podcast, we will explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater purpose, self-awareness, and a deep inner peace. Through integrating the many years of knowledge and professional experience, as well as the wisdom of those who have experienced trauma firsthand. We'll combine psychology accelerated approaches. Coaching and personal experience to assist you, to learn, to grow and to thrive. I hope to empower you to create deeper awareness and understanding and stronger connections with yourself and with others, whilst also paving the way for those who have experienced trauma and adversity to reduce their suffering and become the very best versions of themselves. In order to thrive. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. Hi, and welcome back to Growing Tall Poppies, Thrive After Trauma. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I am really excited and grateful today to bring you our next guest. And it's my absolute pleasure and privilege to welcome back my dear friend Dr. Hayley D Quinn. We actually had the pleasure of chatting to Hayley in episode seven, so please feel free to go back and refresh your memory'cause it was full of wisdom Dr. Hayley d Quinn is a mindset and wellbeing coach. Speaker, author and former clinical psychologist. She's host of the popular Welcome to Self Podcast and past president of Compassionate Mind Australia. Dr. Hayley is passionate about burnout, prevention, and helping women non-binary and gender diverse people transform their relationships with themselves and achieve their goals while prioritizing sustainable practices, self-care and compassion. She promotes a new model of sustainable success, one where personal wellbeing is no longer sacrificed. So welcome, Dr. Hayley. It's so great to have you here again.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Hi, Nat It's so lovely to be back.

Dr Nat Green:

Very excited that you agreed to come back on, and I know we were just having a quick chat. I know so much has changed for you since we last caught up, and you've come such a long way. So I'd love for you to share some of your news and adventures with us.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Thank you. Yeah, so I think I was, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I was still registered as a psychologist when we first were chatted back in episode seven. So last November, almost 12 months ago now, I decided to step away from my psychology registration and I'd been running two businesses doing my clinical supervision and training. As a psychologist and then doing coaching, speaking and writing in my other business. So November last year, I chose not to renew my psychology registration, which was a big decision.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And go all in on my coaching, speaking, writing business as well. And then January of this year, I started writing a book, which originally was a book just for business women. And then. I just kept getting this book title. It would not leave me alone. And when I told people the title, I spoke to three people in my life and they all said, oh my gosh, it's giving me goosebumps. So I was like, okay, well obviously this is the book I need to write and it's now gonna be open for pre-orders next week.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, I'm so excited. I've watched this. I've sat in the background and watched this come to life. So I am absolutely thrilled that we get to. Yeah, talk about it today and we all get to see the real thing very soon. Thank you. Yeah. So as you know for everyone who's listening, the guests that I have on share their trauma or adversity story and how they've navigated their experience. And I know back in episode seven when we last caught up, you spoke really openly about the domestic violence relationship. You'd experienced and the challenges you faced around leaving that. And you also touched on some other issues that had contributed to your journey to finding yourself. And I know that where you're at now, you're definitely more ready to share deeper parts. So I'd love if you could tell us a little bit more about. What you wanna share with your story today?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, so I guess, you know, my passion from burnout prevention has really come from my own experience of a significant burnout. That was about 10 years ago now, and I think there's been multiple things that led to that. I talk briefly, I kind of do a bit about me in my book, but. The book is not about me. The book is about the reader of the book, but I do share some of my story, including mental health challenges that I had from a young age. Obviously leaving the uk, moving to Australia, finding out that I was neurodivergent three years ago, age 52. And the challenges that, that on reflection. I can see posed for me in terms of misreading signs and signals in relationships and things, and trying to fit myself into a system and a world that really wasn't designed for me. Mm. And as, as I would've spoken about back in the other episode, I became a single parent. And I really thought that I was taking good care of myself and on, in many ways, I was.

Dr Nat Green:

Hmm.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

But there's only so much you can do. Like I was raising a son by myself. I, I was a complete solo parent. There was no co-parenting and I made the choice to go to university having dropped out of school younger in life. Mm. So there was lots of challenges around that and lots of imposter syndrome that I was dealing with. But did very well at university and went on to do a PhD. During that time, I was also sometimes working up to three jobs to support me and my son. Wow. So on reflection, I was, I was recovering from trauma. I was single parenting, I was studying, I was working, and I was a neurodivergent woman living in a neurotypical world, but I didn't know I was a neurodivergent woman. Mm-hmm. So, of course I burnt out.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. It's really no wonder when you, know all the stuff. In hindsight, it's the perfect recipe for burnout, isn't it really knowing what we know now.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Absolutely, and I guess the unfortunate thing for me was there was lots of signs and I didn't pay attention to them, and when I did and I knew I needed help. I found that really hard at the time to ask for help, so I just kept pushing through. And I think this is really common for people is we just think, well, you know, I'm training to be a psychologist, or I'm, I'm now a psychologist.'Cause my, my burnout happened a few years into being a psychologist. So a lot of this, you know, I'm a psychologist, I should know how to manage this.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. What

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

will this mean if I tell somebody I'm not coping well? So lots of shame. Which just compounds the problem and increases the stress, right? Of course. But then there was also this part for me of the relationship I had with myself, which wasn't good. So I didn't necessarily think I deserved to have the help that I needed, and that was a practice in itself. So a lot of what I talk about in the book, the book's called"From Self Neglect to Self-Compassion, A Compassionate Guide to Creating A Thriving Life", and it really is based on my clinical knowledge, my lived experience. And I have walked the path that I take people through in the book, and it really does make a difference when we can change the relationship with ourselves. It makes a difference to everything that we do, the decisions we make, the willingness of receiving help from other people, all those things. Yeah. So that was, that was a real journey for me and, and a lot of practice to get to a place where. I did change the relationship with myself. I have a very compassionate relationship with myself, and I've designed my life in a way that works for me as a neurodivergent woman, but also works for me in terms of my values alignment and what's meaningful for me, but also what brings joy and excitement and happiness into my life as well.

Dr Nat Green:

What a wonderful way to live. And you know, there's a few things I'd love to unpack in what you just said. I know that. You know, I've shared some of my story as I've talked through on the podcast on various episodes, and one of the things that a lot of the wonderful guests that I'm getting on lately are so generously doing is sharing. From a place of their lived experience being of huge value. So don't get me wrong, we're not saying that you have to have been through something terrible to be able to do your job, but it definitely brings that. Depth to our work, doesn't it, that we didn't realize would add that other layer until we experienced it? Would you agree with

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

that? Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think there, there's a lot to be said for the the learned knowledge. I think is important. Mm-hmm. I don't think it can be one or the other. I think if we only have learned knowledge and not the lived experience, and that's not to say we have to have exactly the experience somebody else has had, but if we have, you know, if we've sailed through life, although I don't think I've ever met anybody that really has just sail through life. So, but if we don't have the, the learned knowledge and the lived experience, if we've only got lived experience and We've got no learned knowledge. I think that can be dangerous. Yes. Agreed. Um, so certainly now I've left a, a kind of governed profession like psychology and I've moved into what, what I sometimes call the wild, wild west of coaching.

Dr Nat Green:

It can feel like that can't it at times.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

There's some amazing, um, people in the coaching space who are really credible and have got really good experience and really good learned knowledge. And unfortunately, there's people there who have lived experience and are working with people in a way that perhaps isn't. The safest way to be working with people.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, and I think having that background with being so ethical as a registered health practitioner for so long and your own lived experience without the guilt and the shame for starting to be able to share that must be very different from where you were at a year ago with such regulation.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you know that there's new regulations again within the, the profession of psychology around self-disclosure. And I know that as a psychologist, and I think we need to be very mindful about what we're disclosing, and certainly sessions when people are working as a psychologist or counselor or whatever they're doing. Self-disclosure needs to be in service of the client's wellbeing and what's in the best interest of your client always. But the new regulations around, you know. Basically you shouldn't be self-disclosing at all. I think it's really sad because I think it's taking the human out of the process. And I know there's been times that I had shared things because I knew they would be helpful for my client and they absolutely were. And the client let me know that they really were so. I guess there's a sense of freedom now that I'm not working in you know, under that registration, that I can be more open and free about what I share about my story. And, you know, I, I love Brene Brown always says, share from the scar, not the wound. And I'm a big believer in that I don't share stuff that's necessarily happening in the moment. If I had something that was causing me distress or very stressful, I probably wouldn't be sharing that at that time. Yeah. But a lot of the stuff that's happened in my life from childhood right through, I've done a lot of therapy, I've done a lot of work on myself, I've healed that. I've got to a place where. I am comfortable sharing the things I'm comfortable sharing and I'm not gonna get all distressed. And it then it kind of becomes about me needing to share my story with people.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm. But it,

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

what it does is it allows me to share things that people can perhaps see themselves in, and it can normalize and validate for other people that actually being a human is really hard. Mm, like we suffer. It is part of our condition as a human being, and I think when we know we're not alone in stuff, it can then make it easier for people to kind of reach out and get the support that they might need.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes, most definitely. Because we know that healing from any sort of trauma, doing any recovery in that area really is around connecting and having relationships. Being part of something bigger than ourselves.'cause we can't do this on our own, can we?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Absolutely.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. So tell me then, if this is okay, you've been, you know, only three years ago recognized that you're a neuro divergent woman. So tell me a bit about that and how that's been for you.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah. So I, um, I guess in some ways it came as a shock and in other ways not at all. Like I, I have known my whole life that something was different. Mm-hmm. I used to, I literally used to think I'd been dropped off on the wrong planet and then I got my assessment and I was like, oh, I was dropped off on the wrong planet. That makes so much more sense. That that was a process that was really multifaceted and I, I'm a big believer in it and I say it a lot, you know, feelings are not mutually exclusive. No. And I felt a lot of relief and I also felt a lot of grief and sadness as well. I. And then I had periods of feeling angry and then times where I was like, oh my gosh, if I'd have known this as a child, maybe some of the circumstances I ended up in my life I wouldn't have done. But then I also thought, do you know what I, I was born in the seventies maybe being identified., I've been, I, um, identified autistic with ADHD maybe in the seventies and eighties. That wouldn't have been great for me. No. The kind of, you know, treatments that were being offered.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah,

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

we're actually harmful. So in some ways it's probably better. I wasn't identified back then. In some ways, it would've been really great to understand that there was nothing wrong with me.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah, yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

I just have a different type of brain and I think differently, and I operate differently. What I found. Was when I, on reflection, I would look and I've always been somebody that has like, you know, 12 alarms a day in my phone. Gosh. And I always used, I always used to wonder like, God, why do I have to set these alarms all the time? Then I got diagnosed with A DHD, and I'm like, well, of course I have to set alarms all the time because I completely lose track of time and I got hyperfocused on something. Mm. You know, being an autistic woman, I can struggle sometimes to recognize that I'm thirsty or I'm hungry.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

So I'll set alarms in my phone to remind me to eat.

Dr Nat Green:

Wow.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And I, I realized, I've actually set up all these systems for myself. I. So I can live in a neurotypical world, but I didn't realize why I was doing them. And now I do obviously realize, hmm. But what it means now is I can refine these systems that I have and I can make sure they are really suitable for me and that they're helpful, not harmful. And I had developed this compassionate relationship with myself. I was really fortunate that I started my training in compassion focused therapy back in, I think, 2013.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm. And

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

I just knew it was, I really resonated with the framework. And I did a lot of training. I was fortunate enough to be mentored and trained by Paul Gilbert, the founder of Compassion Focused Therapy, and I went on to train other people in compassion focused therapy. So I was really embodying this and really living this, and then when I had my diagnosis, it, it just upleveled my self-compassion again. You know, it was like, okay, well this is just more reason for me to recognize what's going on for myself, not shame myself or be critical about why I do the things I do. So it's, it's been interesting. I, and I think I'm still getting to know myself through that lens. Through that lens, and I think always will.'cause we're always changing and growing, right? I'm, I'm not gonna be the same woman I am at 55. At 65 or 75 or 85. So yeah, it's, I think it's about being curious about yourself and you know, continually kind of keeping in touch with you and. Understanding who you are and what you like and what works for you,

Dr Nat Green:

and what a brilliant blend to have in your background. That compassion and self-compassion. So that was another lens that you could bring to that. Beautiful. Yes, because many people would get that diagnosis that they probably late in life already suspected, but it might have been a lot harder to accept than someone who had this. Beautiful background in compassion.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, because I think there, there is still a lot of stigma, particularly around autism, more so than ADHD. And you know, some of it has been challenging. And like I said, there was, I found a lot of grief was showing up as well in how different my life could have been, perhaps if I'd have known myself differently and if people around me had known me differently and understood me differently. So I think it's. It. I think it's one of the biggest gifts I've given myself. I'm, I'm absolutely really pleased that I went through that assessment process and I acknowledged my own privilege in that because it's not an easy process to access and it can be expensive, but for me, that was absolutely something I would do 10 times over again because I think knowing ourselves is one of the greatest gifts we could ever give ourselves.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm. Definitely. So. With that, knowing yourself and also then making that decision to break away from being a psychologist. What other huge things have happened in that past year?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Gosh, well, writing the book, yes. That's been a pretty, pretty big thing. I think just really, um, I, I was always already running my coaching business, but really focusing on that differently. Has been interesting. I've been learning a lot more. At one point it felt like I'd gone back to university even though I had the learning about marketing and different things in business. And I think also I'd done a lot of identity work before giving up my registration. But what I realized after, so I felt comfortable that I could let go of the psychology, the psychologist label. Yes. Um, but I think that continued to be a process for me of what does that mean? And I still use the term former clinical psychologist.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Because. I worked really, really hard for that, and I think it also gives information to whoever's coming across my work to see that I'm not just a coach in a sea of a million coaches. Mm-hmm. I've got this credible background that adds to what I offer as well, but I questioned for a while, am I hanging onto it? Because I want to hang on to the, I'm a psychologist still, so that was an interesting kind of process. And then just per, just on a personal level, I, I moved. Um, we are currently building, my husband and I have a building company and we're currently building our house. We sold in Brisbane and we're currently building again, but I live up, up at the coast at the moment. So that's been really lovely. We've spent a lot of time up here, but I've been living up here permanently, so that's been a change. And I guess that has also. Helped me focus on a different way of wanting to take care of my health. As well. So that's been quite interesting. Moving away from the city to the coast makes me kind of want to be outside and, you know, walking on the beach or just being out in the fresh air, that is an area for me that I struggle with, with consistency, which I think is part of my ADHD.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes, I understand that. Well and truly.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

But it's, it's that take yourself out of an environment and put yourself somewhere new and then check in with. How you feel and what you like and what you don't like. So that's been really interesting. But I'd say the main thing really has been the, the book writing.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm. And you know, where better to get inspiration than by the beach. Mm. Out of the city, just to really set a whole new scene. Yeah. And I know one of the things I've loved about you in the time since I've known you is that you really. Walk your walk your walk and talk your talk. And you, the anti burnout coach have so many things in place mm-hmm. To honor your boundaries and really live and breathe what you do. So tell us a bit more about what you've managed to do in your burnout recovery that you insist on doing daily. Now,

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

the, the absolute key thing for me is checking in with myself every day. Mm. And, um, I, I just recently started over on Instagram, a check in daily with Dr. Hayley.

Dr Nat Green:

I'm enjoying that. I love listening to that every day. Well, what's Dr. Hayley up to?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Well, the, the name came to me and I'm like, is that like, totally like cheesy, but I love it.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. But I love it. It's so cool. Check in daily with Dr. Hayley. What's she doing today?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, so that for me is really to help people get into the practice of checking in with themselves. For me, it starts first thing in the morning when I wake up, it's like, oh, good morning, darling. How did you sleep? And then thinking about what have I got on? What do I need so that I'm resourced and is that something I can provide for myself? Or is that something I need to reach out and ask somebody else to help me with? But then also checking in throughout the day at different times, just like, how am I feeling? What do I need? And then honoring that as best I can. Mm. So that I think is the, the absolute fundamental thing for me is just check in. Then there are things like not over committing in my diary. Making sure things aren't, you know, I've not got too many things, not doing back to back meetings, things like that.

Dr Nat Green:

So tell me, if someone were to ring and say, oh, could just, could I squeeze you in here? Or could you do that? What would happen? How would you handle that? Now that the old Hayley, who was the psychologist that was back to back when she was burnt out, would've done?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah. So old Hayley would've looked at, how on earth could I squeeze you in? I need to do that. I need to make sure you're in my diary and take care of you. I would look at my diary and I would see if there was actually space and if there wasn't, I would respond and say, I don't have anything today, but these are the times I've got, and I would send an email.

Dr Nat Green:

Perfect. So really setting boundaries to start with. Holding boundaries and honoring you and your energy levels.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Absolutely. So I, I color code my diary. I think the wonderful thing about these smartphones is we, we can really use them well for our brains, particularly for neuro divergent. And I color code different appointments in my diary and I have anything that's classed for me as self-care is yellow. And I look at the start of every week how much yellow I've got in my diary. And if there is not a lot of yellow in my diary, I make sure I put it in.

Dr Nat Green:

I'm just sitting here going, oh, don't look at my diary. I need to do a check-in daily with Dr. Hayley myself. I love that. What a, what a great way to organize things so that you can look at it very quickly. Know

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

and that's the thing for me is a lot of the stuff I try and do for myself and I, and when I'm working with clients is how do we reduce the cognitive load? Because having to decipher, say you had say five things in your diary, having to decipher, is this work, is this something for the kids? Is this self-care? What is this? Takes time and energy. Mm-hmm. If work was green and the children stuff was blue and self-care is yellow, you don't need to do that part because you just need to look visually and see it. So for me it's about how do I. Make things easier, that can be made easier. And you know, I, I focus on good nutrition. I, I actually have somebody who comes and cooks my meals and I, we have love it. Well, cooking. I know somebody said to me, is that not just for celebrities? And I'm like, well, no. It's about thinking about what could I outsource because I had got a little while ago to a place where I was. Not planning and organizing my food well. So I would grab something and I very quickly realized that I was either skipping some meals or I just wasn't eating. I was just grabbing what was available.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And I know for me that I don't, if I don't nourish my body well, I really, for everybody,

Dr Nat Green:

yeah, your

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

brain can't function as well as it might, and your body doesn't work as well. So that was one of the things that I chose to outsource. So now all my meals are planned, like I still do the planning and choose what I wanna have, but uh, it's then cooked and it's ready. Um, beautiful. And I find that really helpful. Things like making sure I've got glasses of water popped around because I can be terrible for just taking a glass of water for a walk'cause my husband says. Rather than drink, take it for a walk around the house, put it down somewhere else. Not ideal. No. But making sure things like that are visual for me, because as an ADHD'er like object permanence, right? Mm-hmm. If there's not a glass of water in sight. I'll forget water exists and won't drink it. Exactly.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, so when you look at all these things you've got in place now, and I'm sure we've only scratched the surface with prompts around like that, with outsourcing that with color coding, your diary not overbooking yourself when you think about where you are now versus. In the midst of that dreadful, burnt out period of your life, tell us a little bit more about what life was like then in that burnt out, exhausted phase, because it's not just about physical exhaustion, is it?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

No, not at all. I mean, I, I was mentally, physically, spiritually, just completely depleted. And when you say what was life like, I'm almost like, gosh, it, it is almost like it was lifeless. Mm-hmm. Know it was, um, it was a really hard time actually.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And I think we can forget how hard things are, but when we really reflect back. I was disconnected from not only myself, but my husband, my friends, um, my son to a degree, like my son and I were single parent and child for 13 years. We've got a really close relationship.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

But there would be things there that I was, I was just finding it really hard to be engaged in anything. I mean, there was times I, I could barely get off the couch, like if I got outta bed and could make it to sitting on the couch watching a movie or doing something that was. It was like a good day. Some days like I'd go to try and put something in the washing machine and I'd feel like completely out of breath and like, I'd run a marathon. It was ridiculous. When I think about it, um, my body was so depleted that I just really had to stop most things. I was not socializing. Um, it had a really significant impact on, you know, finances. My health, my overall wellbeing, my relationships, the lot. And this is why I'm so, so passionate about burnout, prevention.'cause if we can stop people getting to the point of burnout, like preventing burnout will take you less time, less energy and cost you less money then recovery from burnout ever will.

Dr Nat Green:

Absolutely

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

that, that cost me a lot of money in like, figuring out my health. Mm-hmm. I lost lots of income. Um, you know, the, all the things that you need to do to get to a place where you are. Feeling okay again, is, is can be a massive journey and can take weeks, months, even years. And there's research out showing that, you know, even after four years, you can still see kind of the remnants of burnout from people. So I don't want that for anybody. That's, that's why I'm so passionate about burnout prevention. Mm-hmm. And if we can get to know ourselves and really set up life in a way that works for us, then we've got a much better chance of never being in burnout.

Dr Nat Green:

And I think I really, I'm very grateful that you shared that because so many of the people that listen to our podcast often message and share that they're exhausted, they're burnt out, but they've just gotta keep going, keep going, keep pushing. And what we think is if we just do that, we'll get better. We'll just push through it and we'll be fine. But what we know, and I'm a recovering, burnt out. Person as well, workaholic that sometimes we have to completely stop because it's our nervous system that's fried. It's not just absolutely, we need a little bit of a rest and we sleep a bit more. It's not that

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

at all. You, you cannot work yourself out of burnout. You cannot push yourself out of burnout, like it's the antithesis of what you need to be doing. I say to people, you know, if you, if you saw something smoldering. You could get a glass of water and throw it on that and it would put out that smolder. If you wait for that to set fire, that glass of water's gonna do nothing. Mm-hmm. And it's the same with us. If, if we look at our diaries and go, I'm back to back, I'm seeing, like I used to speak to psychologists who were seeing eight, nine people a day back to back and be like, oh, I'm fine. Well you might be fine today, but I could almost guarantee give it a few years. Or even shorter for some people, and you're not going to be fine. Now, we all have different capacities, of course, so for some people, seeing three people in a day might be capacity. Some people may be able to see six or seven people because maybe they don't have all the other things going on. In their life, or maybe they do have, um, a different kind of energy level. So I'm not saying everybody should do like minimal. This, this, for me, I think one of the fears can be, you know, I work a lot with women non-binary and gender diverse folk, high achieving.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm. And

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

I think some of the fear can be, but if I slow down or if I don't, you know, if I become more compassionate to myself or if I change the way I'm doing things, I won't be successful. I won't be achieving. I don't believe that's true at all because I think a lot of the stuff we do a lot of the time is busy. Being busy.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, absolutely agree. Yes. And And I was very much like that, that you just keep going, keep going. And I did the. Eight clients a day, five days a week, six days a week, sometimes for years. Yeah. And wore that badge. Yeah. A big badge of honor about being busy. Yeah. But I paid a price. Absolutely. And you cannot possibly do that relentlessly without some sort of impact. And it might be that it's that complete disconnection from the world around you.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah. And I think you know it. Like I said before, I mean, people, people have different capacity and capabilities of how much they can do, but everybody needs to take care of their body and mind.

Dr Nat Green:

Exactly.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

That's a non-negotiable, and if you don't, I, I think you, you are ultimately gonna end up in burnout somewhere, but I think one of the really toxic things we hear is, well, burnout's inevitable. I remember listening to a podcast. I was in the car with my husband and I was listening to a podcast and the person said, well. Everyone's gonna end up in burnout, so it's better you end up there sooner rather than later. And I was ranting in the car. Oh, I can imagine. Absolutely. Ranting in the car and I was like, that is ridiculous. We are literally saying to people, just burn out and then get over it. That is so irresponsible. Exactly. And it's not inevitable. We can be putting things in place that can help. When we are busy, like I, I like to think of things like you, we need to understand that if we're gonna be really busy and have heavy loads, it's gotta be a sprint, not a marathon.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

You know, we can't just keep doing it. We can do it for a period of time, but then we have to have time where we are not working at that level. And I like to do what I call front loading self-care. Mm. Tell us about that. If I know I'm going into a really busy period, I'll start to think, okay, what do I need to do to build my resilience for myself, make sure I'm getting enough sleep opportunity, because we can't control how much sleep we get, but we can decide on how much sleep opportunity we're gonna give ourselves.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm. So

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

if we want eight hours of sleep, we need to be in bed for at least eight hours. Right?

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

If we're only in bed for seven hours, there's no way you get an eight.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Plenty of sleep opportunity. Making sure I'm hydrated, making sure that I'm well nourished, making sure that I'm not really busy in the run up to the period where I'm gonna be busy. Mm. And starting to think what are some of the things that I can do for my nervous system as well? Then going into the period of being busy, making sure during that time I'm also checking in with myself. What are the behaviors I need to be doing? What are the structures and strategies I need around me? How do I need to resource myself during this busy period? Mm. And then can I give myself some spaciousness after the busy period?

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

So I can rest, maybe go have some fun, do some fun things, because perhaps I've had to put a bit of the fun stuff on hold, maybe some of the socializing. Mm-hmm. Whilst I've got all this other stuff on. So that I can reengage with that because we know that that community connection and involvement with others is so important for us as human beings. And again, that's gonna be differing levels for different people. Mm. So for me, it's like before, during, and after is really important in terms of how do I take care of myself And this can't be ongoing for months and months and months and months and months.

Dr Nat Green:

No. No,

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

not without a price.

Dr Nat Green:

Exactly. And I think that's the thing that we need to remember that. Yeah, sure. You can do it. Absolutely. But at what cost?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, I did it for years. Exactly. I pushed through. I pushed through, I pushed through, and then I crashed to the ground.

Dr Nat Green:

Exactly. And it's that crash that you want to prevent other people from experiencing. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, because

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

you

Dr Nat Green:

know it's horrendous. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy, would you?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And also I don't believe anybody. If they sat and thought, what is the sort of life I want? I really don't think anybody's going. I want one where I feel overwhelmed and I'm exhausted and I don't have enough time for my family and I never see my friends and I can't sit down and enjoy a meal quietly. And I know there's parents of young kids out there that would dream of having a meal quietly that that will come, I promise it will come. Nobody's dreaming of a life where they just feel rushed and stressed and their nervous system's activated all the time and they're trying to keep everybody else happy. Mm-hmm. That's. That's nobody's dream, right?

Dr Nat Green:

No, definitely not the dream life. No. I think that you've painted a picture that you are living the dream life that, that a lot of us are striving for, and I love that. I love that so much. And I take my hat off to you for having turned the awful experience you had into the opportunity and the gift that you have. Because look at, look at life now for you.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah. And you know, it feels like a dream life for me. And I also know that my dream life isn't someone else's dream life.

Dr Nat Green:

No.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And certainly when I work with people, it's not about, here's a prescription of how to live this life that you see. It really is about get to know yourself. What is it you want? What do your dream and desires? What do you need to do to change things and learn to do things differently so you can be living a values aligned, meaningful life for yourself, whatever that looks like.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah.

Dr Nat Green:

So if you could share one thing that you feel would be important with the listeners as they navigate their burnout, recovery, trauma, recovery, adversity, recovery, whatever it is, and move into post-traumatic growth, what would it be?

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Oh gosh. Well, just one. Ah, well you can do three or four if you like. Look, I think I've been saying a lot lately is like, one, really acknowledge that you matter and take care of yourself accordingly.

Dr Nat Green:

Mm-hmm.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

But also, I think the other thing that is really important is. Having a willingness to receive the flow of compassion from other people and, and have support and help from other people. And I know that can be really, really difficult. And that was something that was very difficult for me.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

So if it is something that's really difficult for you. Please practice even with little things, like if somebody offers you to make you a cup of tea. I know there's people, somebody said they'll make you a cup of tea. No, no, it's all right. I'll get it. Like it can be that ingrained that we don't want to accept help. So even if it's starting small like that, somebody offers for you to go in front of them in a queue or something and you just say Thank you and take that opportunity so that you can build up to. I need help to work through this. I need help with my, like maybe with a therapist with my mental health after what I've been through, or you know, a trauma therapist or coach who can help you or somebody like myself, where if you wanna redesign your business and your life that you can have that help. So I think, you know, you matter and treat yourself accordingly, but also practice being able to receive help from other people because we can't do this alone. We're not meant to, we're social beings, we're not meant to be doing life by ourselves. When I changed that and learned that, I was like, wow, this is so much, not only easier because you're not holding everything yourself, but it's so much nicer, like you're in community and connection with people.

Dr Nat Green:

It makes such a difference, doesn't it? It really does, and I think, you know, if, if you are sitting there listening now and you feel like, yeah, you really are isolated and doing it alone, then I really urge you to listen to what Hayley is saying and just try one little thing. Yeah. Because, you know, look where you've come from, hay to where you are now and, and it started with little steps. It didn't happen overnight, did it? God, no. Not all way. No. We're still a work

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

in

Dr Nat Green:

progress. Oh, I think we all are. Aren't we really? You know, I hope so. We never get to the end. Yeah. It's like we're always learning and growing and it's, it's exciting to know that. How we are today is not how we're gonna be the end.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

I, I just had the thought as well. When it comes to receiving help from other people, think about how much you like helping somebody.'cause most of us really like helping people, right? Yeah. So think about how much you like helping somebody and imagine the gift you are giving someone else when you ask them to help you.'cause people that care about us and, and love us, they want to help.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

And even strangers, like people love helping people.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. Spot on. Really. And you, you just said that so beautifully because we get such great feelings out of helping other people and, and by letting someone do that to us, it might feel really uncomfortable to start with, but it gets easier, doesn't it? Absolutely. Accepting that help. Yeah. Yeah. So now as we move to wrapping up the conversation, I'd love you to share where our listeners can find you online and anything else you wanna about your amazing book.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Oh, fantastic. Thank you. I'm very excited that, yes, my book will be out for pre-orders next week. I can't even believe it, but that's very cool. Um, so I am, my website is Drhayleydquinn.com. Mm-hmm. And. People will be able to order the book, pre-order the book online. If they're outside of Australia, it will have to be online. If they are in Australia, they'll have the choice of ordering from an online retailer, whatever your favorite online retailer is. Or they can order from my website, and if they order from my website, they can have the book dedicated to themselves or somebody else. And I'll sign that and send that nicely to them. So that'll be the option. I also have a book wait list, and if people are on my book wait list, there'll be some, there'll be some pre-order bonuses anyway for people. Mm-hmm. But if you are on my book wait list, there'll be some extra special pre-order bonuses so people will be able to jump on there. And also I'll be sharing kind of sneak peeks and things of the book on that as well. That's very exciting. I'm so excited. Like a kid waiting for Christmas. Oh, I know. And then I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook as Dr. Hayley d Quinn. Um, my dms and emails are always open, but as I say, they're always open, but I don't always respond straight away because I've got boundaries around those. But I love people sending me messages. So if you've got any questions or you just wanna reach out and say hi, then feel free to do that. And it's always me that responds, unless it's one of those comment episode 104 and then you'll get an automated link for the podcast. But excellent. And yes, otherwise it's me,

Dr Nat Green:

ex. I'll put all those links in the show notes. But yes, Hayley also has a podcast, so did you wanna share that as well? Yeah, about the podcast.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Yeah, so that's Welcome to Self. It used to be called Caring for the Human in the Therapist chair. So the early episodes are aimed at therapists, but I had lots of people telling me that they were really helpful for non therapists anyway. And now it's called Welcome to Self and it really is all about self-care, self-compassion, sustainable ways of living and working. And uh, yeah, we recently had a hundred episodes that was very exciting as well.

Dr Nat Green:

Huge milestone. Yes. So I highly recommend going over and listening to Hayley's amazing podcast. Thank you. Such a wealth of wisdom and knowledge that she imparts there. And as you know, I always end my episode and I'll be interested to see if it's changed from episode seven when I ask you the question I won't remember. What do you think your younger self. Would think of where you are now and what you've achieved.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Oh, she's just, she's just beside herself at the minute, like we've been checking in quite regularly and she's in the book and she's pretty stoked about that. And as a teenager at high school, I wanted to write a book, actually wanted to write a novel, but I was not in a great head space. And I had a lovely English teacher who had offered to the. Read anything I wrote, but I was not open to somebody helping me, so I decided I wasn't gonna bother writing. She's so sad when I think about it now. Yeah. But she's just like, oh my gosh, we did it. She's, yeah. Oh. Yeah, that's, yeah, it's, oh, I'm, I'm, it's all very surreal at the moment, I'll be honest. It's very surreal at the moment.

Dr Nat Green:

I love it so much, and I, I know I'm on your wait list and I'm very excited to get my hands on a copy. When is it likely to be out? And available. So

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

yeah, so the publication date will be in the new year. Okay. And I, I had different thoughts about that, but you know, Christmas people are, are busy and we've got the school holidays, so it's coming out early February in time for Valentine's Day. So you can actually be your own Valentine. And build that relationship with yourself. And then we'll have International Women's Day coming up shortly after. So pre-orders will be 18th of November. Mm-hmm. The book will be early February.

Dr Nat Green:

Fantastic. And yes, I honestly urge you all to get out and buy a copy of that Get on Hayley's wait list and I'm so excited and I'm honestly, I, I feel so proud to see how far you've come and all the amazing changes that you've made, even just in the last year.

Dr Hayley D Quinn:

Thank you so much. That means such a lot.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, honestly, I feel honored and blessed to be your friend. Oh, same. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story again today and going at a much deeper level and really being such an open book. And yeah, thank you so much. You're so welcome. Thank you. Okay, bye for now Thank you for joining me in this episode of Growing Tall Poppies. It is my deepest hope that today's episode may have inspired and empowered you to step fully into your post-traumatic growth, so that you can have absolute clarity around who you are, what matters the most to you, and to assist you to release your negative emotions. And regulate your nervous system so you can fully thrive. New episodes are published every Tuesday, and I hope you'll continue to join us as we explore both the strategies and the personal qualities required to fully live a life of post-traumatic growth and to thrive. So if it feels aligned to you and really resonates, then I invite you to hit subscribe and it would mean the world to us. If you could share this episode with others who you feel may benefit too, you may also find me on Instagram at Growing Tall Poppies and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green. Remember, every moment is an opportunity to look for the lessons and to learn and increase your ability to live the life you desire and deserve. So for now, stay connected. Stay inspired. Stand tall like the tall poppy you are, and keep shining your light brightly in the world. Bye for.

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Dr Natalie Green

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