Growing Tall Poppies

Rise Above Borders: The Untold Story of Trauma, Identity & Leading Boldly as a Migrant Woman

• Dr Natalie Green • Season 2 • Episode 64

Share episode

Send us a Message to connect

In this deeply moving and transformative episode of Growing Tall Poppies, Dr. Nat Green welcomes the remarkable Dr. Selma Music — clinical psychologist, neuroscientist, confidence and visibility coach, and founder of Rise Above Borders.

Selma’s story is one of unimaginable trauma, extraordinary resilience, and radiant post-traumatic growth. As a war survivor, refugee, eldest daughter of migrants, and now a trailblazing leader for migrant women, Selma shares her powerful journey from invisibility and identity loss to bold, values-led leadership.

Together, Nat and Selma explore how trauma shapes identity and visibility, how post-traumatic growth requires community, and how to rise — without apology, without burnout, and without betraying who you are.

🎧 In This Episode, You’ll Hear:

Highlights

  • Selma’s early life surviving the Bosnian War and losing close family to genocide
  • Navigating identity loss as a displaced child, refugee, and new migrant
  • The silent burden of being the eldest daughter of migrants
  • Why playfulness, joy, and connection were missing pieces — and how she reclaimed them
  • The unseen pressures of being the “first” in education and career
  • Her shift from academic success to living aligned with her soul
  • Healing visibility wounds and leading without betraying your values
  • How imposter syndrome can be a protective part, not just a mindset flaw
  • The dangers of traditional leadership programs that ignore trauma and cultural identity
  • Why a trauma-informed, holistic approach is essential for post-traumatic growth
  • The mission of Rise Above Borders and how it’s helping migrant women lead safely and boldly
  • The importance of community, not just therapy, in long-term healing
  • What Selma would tell her younger self — and how she’s become the lighthouse for others

💬 You’ll Love This Episode If You’ve Ever Asked:

  • “Why do I still feel unsafe being seen?”
  • “How do I lead without losing myself or betraying my roots?”
  • “Can joy and leadership coexist after trauma?”
  • “Is there a community that truly gets me?”
  • “Why does my imposter syndrome feel like survival, not self-sabotage?”

Key Takeaways:

✔️ Hope for your healing
 ✔️ Permission to lead as your whole self
 ✔️ Insight into how trauma shapes identity
 ✔️ Strategies for safe, authentic visibility
 ✔️ A heartfelt reminder that you're not alone

📣 Connect with Dr. Selma Music:

 Instagram: @RiseAboveBorders
📬 DM her to connect, collaborate or just say hey - go over to Insta -This is where she is most active and real conversations happen.

💥 Final Words from Dr. Selma:

“Imposter syndrome kept me safe. But now, I don’t need to hide. I’m here — whole, visible, and leading others to rise.”

💛 Final Words from Dr Nat:

“Selma is not just s

If this episode resonates with you then I'd love for you to hit SUBSCRIBE so you can keep updated with each new episode as soon as it's released and we'd be most grateful if you would give us a RATING as well. You can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drnatgreen/ or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrNatalieGreen

Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Dr Nat Green:

Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I'm so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through post-traumatic growth and not just survive, but to thrive after trauma. Through our podcast, we will explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater purpose, self-awareness, and a deep inner peace. Through integrating the many years of knowledge and professional experience, as well as the wisdom of those who have experienced trauma firsthand. We'll combine psychology accelerated approaches. Coaching and personal experience to assist you, to learn, to grow and to thrive. I hope to empower you to create deeper awareness and understanding and stronger connections with yourself and with others, whilst also paving the way for those who have experienced trauma and adversity to reduce their suffering and become the very best versions of themselves. In order to thrive. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. I am super excited and grateful today to bring you our next guest on the Growing Tall Poppies podcast. It's my absolute pleasure to welcome an amazing lady who I am so blessed to call a special friend, and her journey and story is nothing short of remarkable. She's experienced and overcome a great deal of trauma and adversity through her life. And has agreed to come and chat with us today about her personal and professional experience and to share her new, exciting focus with us. So let me start by welcoming Selma Music. Dr. Selma is a clinical psychologist, neuroscientist, as well as the founder of Rise Above Borders, where she's a confidence and visibility coach for migrant women. Leaders and she helps impact driven, soul led and high achieving daughters of migrants to lead bold and unapologetically. And she helps migrant women cultivate intentional lives to rise on their terms. So welcome Selma.

Dr Selma Music:

Oh, thank you for having me. What a wonderful introduction, Nat. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Dr Nat Green:

It's been a little while in the planning and making, but I'm really excited to. Share the space with you today, and I know that our audience is gonna love you and all that you can share with us. So can we just start with you giving us a brief introduction of who you are and what you do in the world?

Dr Selma Music:

Like you said, I am a clinical psychologist and a neuroscientist, as well as a visibility and confidence coach for migrant women. I work with adult children of migrants in my clinical space, but in my playful and joyful space to like balance the two worlds I work with adult daughters of migrants and migrant women. Basically to, I'm on this big mission to inspire and empower them to create impact driven lives. And that has been one of the most life changing experiences for me actually, to be in that space of, community with these women. I. Founded Rise Above Borders to create a community because I've, noticed that there actually isn't one for women who come from migrant backgrounds, and it has been such a joy to be in that space.

Dr Nat Green:

And as you say that, Sel, I just, I love watching you light up, and I know that this is your absolute love and passion, and like you said, you really are on a huge mission. And I'd love it if you could share a bit of your background and your story so it gives even more context to why you're doing what you're doing.

Dr Selma Music:

So I guess to give you a bit of a perspective I'll probably have to start from the very start.

Dr Nat Green:

I love that, which is

Dr Selma Music:

very, let's go. Thanks. So I am of Bosnian background and if you know much about history, Bosnia had a. War in their nineties. That went for about three or so years, and because of the war and the impact that it's had on my family and the many losses in my family we. Sought asylum actually in Switzerland. So that's where we went and, again it's not only the, war and the misplaced, internally and externally displacement that we've experienced, but it's also the many losses within our family as well. And one thing that I often don't talk about is because of the war in Bosnia I've also. It's a, little bit tricky to explain but where I lived before the war we lived in a tiny little country town and it's on the border and now belongs to the Republic of Serbia. And we were like one of the first impacted by the war. And that also led to a lot of lives lost Including my dad and five of my uncles as well. And that's just like within my immediate family. And then the, wider impact throughout. So as a young child and often come back to this as a young child it's hard to make sense of all of that. Like losing your dad and then the wider, family as well, but then also the displacement and then trying to integrate as well. Within the wider environment. So when we moved, like when we sought asylum in Switzerland I remember. That I always remembered feeling less than there was that, whole refugee treatment. And mind you, from what I remember, like everything was done as well as you could within that space, but it's that feeling of less than, and I think. That's not, sometimes people don't by choice. And in those sort of like circumstances And like memory of feeling different, feeling less than feeling, confused about like my identity as well. And then moving after Switzerland and then we actually then moved back to Bosnia after the war. But it was just, we couldn't live there. It wasn't really safe for us. At the time. So that's how my Mum and my now stepdad decided to seek asylum in Australia. So I came here when I was 16. Okay. So 16 yeah. So I was, it was the end of year 10, I remember that. And yeah, it's been a challenge since in terms of my whole identity, like who am I? Where do I belong? How do I make space for my, the, Bosnian parts of me and then the Australian parts of me, but then in between, parts of me and. Yeah, it's, been a challenge and I guess that's where Rise Above Borders comes in and the work that I do clinically as well. But in terms of Rise Above Borders, it's I never felt like I had the guidance that I needed, like my parents tried in terms of they were new migrants to Australia and they didn't really know the system. So it was like trying to always, trying to work out my way and just not knowing where to ask or where to seek help and, and always almost again, feeling less than because I just had no idea.

Dr Nat Green:

And at an age where it's already challenging enough at 16, a really tricky time to transition to a, change within the same country, let alone across another whole country, across all those miles, as well as. All the loss and the confusion, identity loss can only imagine. That must have been absolutely huge for you.

Dr Selma Music:

It was, And it took like when you go and you know this but like when you go through something so big, it shatters so many parts of your world. Yeah. So a lot of those years especially. Like when I like really grasp, as I was getting a little bit older and really not just the event itself, or the events in my instance, but it's the impact on every aspect of your life later on. And when you when I've arrived to Australia when I was 16 I've arrived to a country where I had no, no friends. And no knowledge of how anything worked. I remember you gonna love this one. I remember when I was in year 11 I had just come towards the end of year 10. And I was moved into year 11 and I didn't actually comprehend what this VC was at the time okay. And then it was oh wait, if I don't do well here. Then I can't go to university and I can't do this. So there was just a lot of pressure. A lot,

Dr Nat Green:

yeah. And I went

Dr Selma Music:

to like a mainstream school where didn't have people from my background either, so I didn't really know what to do with me either. So it was just floated around. And had to seek out my own supports around there.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. So you could have easily just flown under the radar and so easily and fallen off and just gone in a very different direction to the one you've chosen

Dr Selma Music:

so easily. I don't and it's that invisibility. Yeah. Of being able to blend in and be invisible. And the, people around me, at least in the sort of like the schooling system probably wouldn't have even noticed.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. Yeah. So that real invisibility across so many areas, and you would've no doubt kept that to yourself. Absolutely. And not been sharing that with people and Oh, yeah. Retreated within yourself.

Dr Selma Music:

Ah, yeah. It's I often talk about that sort of I guess like the maturity that you had to develop Yeah. To deal with the world around you at that time. And like 16 year olds, like when I look at 16 year olds now, I'm like, wow, yes. I had to make some big life decisions at that age. Where, and didn't have that that teenage playfulness and joy. I was always quite serious and quite like driven and quite Yeah, mature, essentially mature. And

Dr Nat Green:

with that maturity, no doubt, that huge sense of responsibility.

Dr Selma Music:

Oh, that a lot of children of migrants could relate to that, sense of responsibility not only for yourself, if you have, and I should have probably added to what, to my history earlier, like the oldest daughter as well. Huge sense of responsibility not only towards myself, but also towards my siblings and all stepping in when mom and my dad, like my stepdad struggled. Their job was to try and get those basic needs met. Making sure that we had somewhere to live, making sure that they had jobs, making sure that essentially rebuilding their whole lives with when they first arrived. And that's. Really hard. So you step in and overcompensate for all the other bits and show up as as the oldest,

Dr Nat Green:

yeah.

Dr Selma Music:

In the family. A lot

Dr Nat Green:

of responsibility on your shoulders.

Dr Selma Music:

So much responsibility that sometimes and I reflect on this, so like later, that sometimes I've forgotten how to be a joyful, playful fun having 16-year-old. And there are parts of me sometimes that feel those I, I've missed out. And I think that's where rise and above borders comes in because one of the core values within that, within Rise and Above, borders is playfulness.

Dr Nat Green:

I love that so much. It's

Dr Selma Music:

so important.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, absolutely. Because it's almost like you can now relive that the bit that you missed out, and this is your time to do that and lead the way for others who have. Had to walk in similar shoes to yours as they transition to a whole new country.

Dr Selma Music:

Yeah. And a lot of daughters of migrants, like my story is like a lot of daughters of migrants would relate to this story of having to do all of the things and having to step in. So many times and, it's sometimes we joke about it now, it's oh, did you have to translate those documents for your parents? Did you have to call the energy company for your parents? Yeah, I did that at 12. And it's like you laugh about it, but in reality, if you actually, if you'd like sit with it and deeply think about it what did you miss out on? Because you had to do all of those things. And a lot of the times it was that visibility that joyfulness, that playfulness and the community of people that will see you.

Dr Nat Green:

Definitely. You finished school. You obviously managed to get through that and, move forward to uni, so you did well enough and surprised yourself and everyone else, no doubt. Yeah I, did

Dr Selma Music:

exceptionally well, and of course thank you. I did, yeah, I did well and and that's the thing. I remember like through those sort of year 11 and year 12 translating from like reading my textbooks and translating from English into German.'cause that's the language I spoke at the time and that's how my brain functioned and then pushing through. Like all of those extra layers of having to do more than everybody else just to get to university at the time. Yeah. And then I ended up doing a psychology and psychophysiology, which is like a neuroscience degree. And really loved the, psychology part always really enjoyed that. Even like in high school and, but it was hard. I was the first one in my family to go to university. Wow.

Dr Nat Green:

So there's

Dr Selma Music:

the burden of that.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. And trying

Dr Selma Music:

to navigate all of that within a system that was not familiar. That really, I. If you didn't know what to ask for or where to look like the help wasn't offered either. So that was really tricky and oftentimes I didn't even know what was there. So I often now mentor a lot of I. Sort of first generation migrants and their children in terms of like how to ask for help and how to, where to look for help and things like that. Like there was always a part of me that was interested in trauma. So during those like early years, I, at uni I always read more about the experience of trauma.'cause I, guess like I was trying to make sense of like my own experiences and the impact. That the war and the displacement and the refugee camps and so on had on us. And then that's how I moved into my masters and my PhD. As well. That's goodness's me.

Dr Nat Green:

I just happened to get through. Oh, I may as well do a PhD on top of that. Absolutely. Because I haven't

Dr Selma Music:

done enough yet. I haven't done enough. But this is the interesting thing actually. So my PhD was in the psychology like under that umbrella, but it had a very strong neuroscience flavor and I was looking at how trauma impacted resettled refugees from like a, neuroimaging perspective. And we use all sorts of like really cool equipment that I was so excited to use. I bet. But one of the things that I've realized while I was doing my PhD and I was in placement and then started working in the field was that I didn't really wanna be in that system anymore. And that was really, I think that was like one of those huge. Wake up calls for me.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Selma Music:

And that was that first time where I had to put the brakes on and redefine what, growth and success and the lot what kind of life I wanted to lead. So rather than fall into the trap of working hard to please. X, Y, and Z and to get all these certificates and diplomas and qualifications and titles, it didn't really matter after I was getting it all, I was like, this doesn't actually, there's nothing in, this. That's attracting me to the life. Interesting.

Dr Nat Green:

So really you were looking because, and you said earlier that you felt less than in, so you were looking for this external validation, and then this sounds like this was your moment, this first time that you actually thought what about me. Yeah. How do I want my life to be rather than other people's? External validation and expectations. Yeah. That's a huge moment for you by the sound of it.

Dr Selma Music:

It was a huge moment, Nat. I guess like the way I reflect on this is there was always a part of me that was like just trying to get to the same level as everybody else. Yeah. That was it. I just wanted to be at the same level as everybody else. And then like with the PhD it's 1% of the population, so they're already painting it in a particular way. And I was that doesn't actually it didn't mean anything to me. Yeah. And if anything, it built quite a lot of resentment actually. Okay. Because I felt, it took away from the things that actually mattered to me, which is my family, my relationships, my relationship with my son. And it took me a while to recalibrate after that. Yeah. And it, was it was a, key moment in time for me where I was I need to redefine this.

Dr Nat Green:

I need

Dr Selma Music:

to redefine what growth or post-traumatic growth for me looks like. Yeah. And not fall into the trap of what other people think I should be doing. And. It was really tricky because I had set myself up for an academic path, which now I was choosing not to do and what will everybody else say about this?

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah of

Dr Selma Music:

course. And then I moved into private practice and after that I but even that wasn't quite like the right fit. I was, it there was always a part of me that. Was craving that playfulness, that joyfulness energy, that connection community, and in the clinical setting, you can't really have that, right? Yeah. It's that

Dr Nat Green:

missing part, isn't it? When you are seen as the professional and you've gotta put this face and this mask on and show up in a certain way because the board and society say that's how it has to be. This playful part is missing in that clinical space. So again, absolutely. That bit that you'd already missed out on for so much of your life, you were getting more and more in tune with the fact that you needed that.

Dr Selma Music:

Absolutely. I think it's like a key part. Yeah. Key part. And when I see that part of me now, sometimes I don't it almost feels like the most, the real, the purest me. And I welcome it with so much joy.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, that's beautiful. I just obviously I've known you a little while now and, when I think of Sel, I think someone who has fun and is hilarious. So that's all I've known. And to hear you say that this wasn't part of you. It's heartbreaking, but it's so beautiful at the same time because I think wow, you have brought that in and embraced her so beautifully that yeah, it's natural now. But that's not how it was all your life really.

Dr Selma Music:

No, that was so far so far from my life. If you had told 16-year-old me. Oh, there's no way. I would've been like, no way. Because other people would've described me as the most serious, the most mature, the most, yeah. Not, completely different energy. And I just didn't, that didn't align with how I wanted to live my life, like my own life, but also how I wanted to be in the world. That is not how I wanted to be in the world. And I think and the other part within that is I wanted, to, do all of this without betraying my values. I think that's the other key bit or without not showing up with my Bosnian parts as well as like my Australian Swiss world parts and all of the bits that I've taken with me along the way. And I think that's the most important bit for me. To show up without betraying my values.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. So obviously this experience that you've been through has really changed your perspective on life, on relationships and values. How have you managed to embrace that in the way that you have now?

Dr Selma Music:

I love that question. Thanks. I it has several parts to it. So I, again, I have to jump back to the war. One of the things during the one of I was persecuted because of who I was essentially. That's what that was like, who I was as a person because of my name, because of my spirituality, because of X, Y, and Z. And then you are Taught to hide. Yeah.'cause it's a it's safe. You don't wanna show the world who you are because essentially a, lot of people within my family died because of who they were. So visibility is unsafe. That's essentially what I have learned. Visibility is unsafe. So hide and fade into the background.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Selma Music:

But then when you try to be more authentic to who you are, when you try to show up and lead visibly how, those two things are really contrast, right? And I think one of the things that we need to remember, and this is that kind of like trauma informed way of, being and leading to expect. Yourself to go from one extreme to the other is unrealistic and unreasonable, right?

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah,

Dr Selma Music:

definitely. And it's unsafe, essentially. So what I did was I climbed little took little steps along the way. And if you had told me that I was going to even share parts of my story with you like 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you Nat.

Dr Nat Green:

No.

Dr Selma Music:

There's no way I would've even spoken about any of this 10 years ago. No. Would've felt too unsafe. Too unsafe, too uncomfortable, too too visible. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Selma Music:

But now I know that those are the things, all of these lived experiences are the things that make me who I am. And make me lead in the way that I want to lead and make, and are the things that contribute to me showing up in the world. The way I want to show up.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, I love that. Honestly, I love that so much. Look at you and how far you have come. It's, oh, it gives me so much joy to just hear your story, but know how far away from that young, that little girl and then that 16-year-old girl you are now. But I know it's come at huge cost and with a lot of tumultuous times along the way.

Dr Selma Music:

Yeah. And the other thing as well, Nat, which is really interesting kinda popped into my head just now, is part of my Rise Above Borders is the, program is, or one of the programs is. dismantling imposter syndrome. which kind of feeds into this. Yeah. So one of the things is to lead safely and within to reclaim that voice to lead visibly and without apology, right? But you always have to come back to the part of where did this come from?

Dr Nat Green:

Why

Dr Selma Music:

was it there? How did it shield you from everything that you've experienced along the way? If I had been visible, then that would've been unsafe.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, absolutely. If I had

Dr Selma Music:

been visible at different times in my life that would've been unsafe. So there is a part of me that's always grateful to that.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Selma Music:

You know that I'll call it my little imposter syndrome. I, actually love that part of me'cause that part is what kept me safe. But I am here now. And all I need to I always talk to it, I'm like, it's okay. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. Because you have a lot to thank her for.

Dr Nat Green:

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it, yeah. And I love that you are embracing all the parts. Like you talk a lot about the different parts of you, but you've really worked beautifully to blend them together to be a whole part now,

Dr Selma Music:

and that's what it feels like.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah,

Dr Selma Music:

that's what it feels like. More, whole than I've ever been.

Dr Nat Green:

And. Now seems like the perfect time to talk more about your Rise Above Borders and really showcase the amazing vision that you have for these beautiful migrant women that you are going to lead. So tell us about that.

Dr Selma Music:

I get so excited. I can't even sit in my seat excited. I love so much. I literally, I'm like, Ooh let's do that. So the mission of Rise Above Borders is to. Inspire and empower ambitious impact driven soul-led daughters of migrants and migrant women leaders who are essentially done playing small. And we do this by teaching the practical tools and strategies to dismantle imposter syndrome and reclaim your voice. Lead visibly, lead unapologetically. But without burning out or betraying the person's values. And I think that's the key part. And the, program is really for basically first generation people like me, essentially, right? Yeah. First generation migrant women, refugee, backgrounds, adult children of migrants, eldest daughters, and any sort of if you find yourself in that space, that's, this is what Rise Above Borders is and,. It's for people who have similar to me. We've accomplished all of these things, but they are still invisible. So we want them to move forward, create the impact that they want to create. And I think that's the other thing, create the impact. And I often talk about what is the cost of being invisible? Yeah. Who what is the world missing out on? Because you didn't have the, community and the strength and the strategies and the tools to move forward to rise. So I get so excited because I, just I just, I get, to be in community with, women who are professionals, high achievers leaders business owners, and to understand why things have happened in that trauma informed safe way and to, design a blueprint forward, but in a safe way. That's what Rise Above Borders really is.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, honestly, it's. Absolutely brilliant. And I watch you light up. I know that I get to watch it on video and everyone will be listening to it, but we'll definitely put this one on YouTube and the video so people can see how much you light up. And I just think what a gift you are to this world and to be able to share that. With so many other beautiful migrant women who are also so capable, but feeling invisible or not safe to be visible, how much more we can help once you get this out in the world and really ramp things up even more. I just think look how far you've come and your brilliance has been allowed to shine and imagine what. It's gonna do when so many others shine as well.

Dr Selma Music:

I think the the impact that they will make and the difference that they will leave in the world. Oh,

Dr Nat Green:

yes.

Dr Selma Music:

I'm getting goosebumps. Oh, no. Speaking about it, right? So I'm here for it. I am so here for

Dr Nat Green:

it. Absolutely. Oh, honestly, it's so exciting and I know you're getting closer and really getting it ready to launch and get out in the world fully, no longer keeping it invisible. Absolutely. excellent So if you could share one thing. With our listeners that would help them as they navigate their post-trauma or work through overcoming their adversity and move into post-traumatic growth, what would that be?

Dr Selma Music:

Find your community. I think that's, the key. Find the people that will understand where you're coming from, will not gaslight, you

Dr Nat Green:

will

Dr Selma Music:

not dismiss you. Find the people that will understand where you've come from, what you have experienced, and that will cheer you on and have your back. I think that's, the key. Because we are people who've experienced trauma are often really good at doing things on their own. Like that hyper independence, like it's usually a very strong part to us.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. Funny that

Dr Selma Music:

isn't it. But even though that has served us the growth or to grow means to find people to be in community with.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. Oh, that, I think that's, the big, that's key. I completely agree. And, you touched on that being dismissed, being gaslit, and that's such a big part of it, isn't it? That people and that's why I've called this growing tall poppies because people. Really like to cut down the tall poppies, the ones that are game to stand out. And a lot of us dull our light or take that shine off ourselves to keep ourselves invisible and safe. But what we know is important is you can't do it on your own, even though you've done really well on your own for a long time.

Dr Selma Music:

Yep.

Dr Nat Green:

It's about having community who will cheer you on and champion you and show you that it can be safe to shine your light in the world and hold you up rather than cut you down. So what a beautiful thing for you to share and tell me, do you think there's any specific personal attributes or qualities that are also key? To helping someone move from trauma into post-traumatic growth.

Dr Selma Music:

Openness to, and I'm speaking from my own personal experience here, I think openness to embrace things that are different, maybe not the way. That you have been taught all the templates that you have had all your life, and there's nothing wrong with those templates. They got you to where you are. But being able to embrace doing things differently, embracing anything that they can help. Alleviate some of the, pain that we've experienced. So what I mean by that is there's no straight path to healing, and we all know that. And it might not look like the textbook. Modalities that people suggest. So I always say to everyone that I work with the way you heal it it's gonna be different for everyone. And we want to embrace the change and we want to look at it from a holistic point of view.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Dr Selma Music:

That's the thing.

Dr Nat Green:

Definitely. And I think that's a key thing from I know you and I have talked about this, that it's so important that we're holistic and as you've said it's, very fitting that you've talked about different parts. So one part of you would want this and one part would want this, and one part would want that. And we are all as human beings the same. In that. There's parts of us that need certain things and parts that don't need those things. So we have to be holistic. And treat the person as a whole human being. Absolutely. Not just what people think we should be or what we think we should

Dr Selma Music:

be. With also taking into account all the environmental and systematic.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes.

Dr Selma Music:

Factors that impact someone's mental health and not assume that it's the, person only. There are so many factors or additional factors that can sometimes have more detrimental impacts on the person, definitely than the event itself. So I think it's like open to change, open to, to changing your templates, but also the wider sort of environment needs to be considered and all those other factors as well.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah, definitely. Just imagine if all of those parts of you, all the old environmental things and all the old experiences had never been taken into account. The same as what you wanna do for all these migrant women that you are going to work with that if you can't see all of them, absolutely. You can't help them.

Dr Selma Music:

No, this absolutely right. So if you, for example have a leadership program for that, where you don't take into account a trauma background, a migrant background, a visibility issues, and safety issues around that, and you push people into, whatever it is that you're pushing them into that is so unsafe and and it's not taking into account the whole person. You need to design these programs in a way, in a holistic way with all of those factors in mind.

Dr Nat Green:

Most definitely. Yeah. So is there anything else you'd like to share with us your wisdom or lived experiences have taught you that you think would be really helpful?

Dr Selma Music:

I think the, thing that had the most, and I've said this before, but I feel like it needs to be emphasized. The thing that had the most impact on me as a human, that has led to the greatest, like I did. Lots of therapy, lots of coaching. Yeah. Lots of that. But I think all in the end, I think that those are all important. Yeah. But it is finding your people that has been. Transformational. Yeah. Finding your people. Like you said earlier, that is people that will hold you up. That has been the greatest gift to me. And Nat you are one of them.

Dr Nat Green:

Sel thank you and you are one of mine. Absolutely. Finding your people and community are key takeaways from this conversation. And you've so generously and openly been so vulnerable and shared your experience. One thing that I often like to start to wrap things up with is, what do you think? We've already touched on this a little bit. Youngest self would think of what you've done and where you are now.

Dr Selma Music:

As you ask that question. I notice like goosebumps all over love it. I think she would be so proud, like my youngest self, when someone says young and stuff, I've always imagine they're 5-year-old. Yeah. And there's no way that there's, a part of her that doesn't believe this to be the reality of my life, but she would be so proud that I am showing the world who I am, but also shining the light. On, the experiences that I've had and that I am talking about them openly and that that I'm creating a blueprint for others to follow and that is, and making it easier and more. Joyful.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes. I love it as your whole face lights up and as you were talking about that, I got goosebumps and I just thought, oh my goodness. She would be so proud. Yeah. And yes, you're shining a light, but I personally think you are being the lighthouse. Oh, you are beaming that out to other people so that you can be that safe place in other people's storm and teach them how to be safe and to shine their lights in the world. I honestly, I'm just so blessed to know you and so grateful, so Sel As we move to wrapping the conversation up, where can people find you and connect you? And let me just preface this with Selma is the social media queen, and Selma teaches all of us about how we should be doing our messaging when some of us aren't doing it so well. So Selma is hilarious to watch on her Instagram. Videos and I guarantee you should all check in and find out more about Sel

Dr Selma Music:

I love it. Thank you. How to show up safely and visibly. I think that's, the key, thing. The best way to get in touch with me is to follow me online on Instagram, which is my handle is Rise Above Borders. So just. Find me there and connect. Send me a dm. I'd love to hear from you.

Dr Nat Green:

Honestly it's, been such a joy and you honestly bring so much joy into my life, other people's lives, and it's honestly such a pleasure to have had you on here. Thank you so much. Sel

Dr Selma Music:

thank you, Nat. It's been such a joy.

Dr Nat Green:

Bye for now. Thank you for joining me in this episode of Growing Tall Poppies. It is my deepest hope that today's episode may have inspired and empowered you to step fully into your post-traumatic growth, so that you can have absolute clarity around who you are, what matters the most to you, and to assist you to release your negative emotions. And regulate your nervous system so you can fully thrive. New episodes are published every Tuesday, and I hope you'll continue to join us as we explore both the strategies and the personal qualities required to fully live a life of post-traumatic growth and to thrive. So if it feels aligned to you and really resonates, then I invite you to hit subscribe and it would mean the world to us. If you could share this episode with others who you feel may benefit too, you may also find me on Instagram at Growing Tall Poppies and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green. Remember, every moment is an opportunity to look for the lessons and to learn and increase your ability to live the life you desire and deserve. So for now, stay connected. Stay inspired. Stand tall like the tall poppy you are, and keep shining your light brightly in the world. Bye for.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Dr Natalie Green

Host