Episode 50:- Flourishing Beyond Limits: Midlife Reinvention and Thriving Through Medical Menopause and Trauma.

In this powerful episode of Growing Tall Poppies, Dr. Nat Green sits down with Belinda Bayliss, founder and CEO of Flourishing Beyond Limits, to discuss trauma, & the transformative power of her path. Belinda, a midlife women’s coach, psychologist, and yoga teacher, shares her inspiring journey of overcoming significant personal challenges, including surviving cancer at 26, navigating early medical menopause, business loss and thriving through adversity.

Belinda’s story is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the possibility of flourishing even after the most difficult life experiences. Tune in as Belinda dives into the key elements of faith, acceptance, self-advocacy, and mindset, exploring how these tools have empowered her to move from trauma to triumph and post-traumatic growth.

Key Highlights/Takeaways:

• Overcoming Trauma and Grief: Belinda reflects on her cancer diagnosis at aged 26 and the emotional toll of losing her fertility. She shares how grief, though painful, became a pathway to resilience and personal strength.
• Navigating Medical Menopause: At just 26, Belinda faced the challenges of medical menopause, a diagnosis rare for someone so young. She discusses how the absence of support at the time led her to self-advocacy and self-awareness.
• The Power of Faith and Values: Belinda shares how her faith served as a guiding light throughout her trauma recovery, helping her align with her values and make life-changing decisions.
• Midlife as a Time of Renewal: Belinda highlights how midlife, often seen as a crisis, can actually be a period of personal renewal and empowerment for women, especially those facing menopause and other life transitions.
• Advocacy and Self-Empowerment: Belinda’s journey underscores the importance of advocating for yourself, whether it’s in the face of health challenges, or navigating life’s other difficult circumstances.
• Mindset and Mantras Matter: Focusing on gratitude, embracing self-compassion, and having a resilient mindset are crucial for overcoming adversity. Belinda’s mantra, "lose a little hair, gain a lot of life," encapsulates the power of shifting focus from what’s lost to what’s gained.

 Belinda's story is a beacon of hope for anyone who has faced adversity, from trauma to loss, and wondered if they could ever truly thrive again. Her ability to rise above her experiences, fueled by her faith, values, and commitment to self-advocacy, is a powerful reminder that we are not defined by our setbacks, but by how we choose to move forward.

Belinda’s work with midlife women highlights the unique strength of this stage of life—offering a chance for personal growth, transformation, and meaningful contribution to the world. Flourishing Beyond Limits is not just a mantra for Belinda—it’s a way of life.

Connect with Belinda: 

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Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

Dr Nat Green: 0:01

Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I'm so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through post-traumatic growth and not just survive, but to thrive after trauma. Through our podcast, we will explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater purpose, self-awareness, and a deep inner peace. Through integrating the many years of knowledge and professional experience, as well as the wisdom of those who have experienced trauma firsthand. We'll combine psychology accelerated approaches. Coaching and personal experience to assist you, to learn, to grow and to thrive. I hope to empower you to create deeper awareness and understanding and stronger connections with yourself and with others, whilst also paving the way for those who have experienced trauma and adversity to reduce their suffering and become the very best versions of themselves. In order to thrive. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. I am super excited today to bring you our next guest on the Growing Tall Poppies podcast. It's my absolute pleasure to welcome a wonderful lady and dear friend of mine who I've only known for the past couple of years. When you meet someone that you connect with at such a beautiful, deep level, it really feels like she's been a part of my life for ages. So I'm really excited to introduce you to her so you can get to know her today as well. And she has had a number of trauma experiences that have compounded over the years and is a wonderful example of a tall poppy. Constantly shining her light brightly despite the adversity she's been through and making a huge difference in the lives of so many. So let me introduce my dear friend Belinda Bayliss, to you all. Belinda or Bel, as I like to call her is the founder and CEO of Flourishing Beyond Limits are business focused on supporting women in midlife. Belinda is a midlife women's coach, mentor, and online educator. She's also a registered psychologist, registered yoga teacher, and holds a master of education, so she's certainly done a lot of amazing things over her career. Bel's career in mental health has allowed her to work in areas such as education, non-government organizations, and in her own private practices as, psychologist and entrepreneur. And when not in work mode, Belinda can often be found creating bespoke resin jewelry, and I have been so lucky, is to get my beautiful key ring from Bel that is on my keys every single day. She loves to be out and about camping by beautiful Aussie beaches with her husband and her dog or roaming around the triathlon world. So welcome Bel. It's so great to have you here.

Belinda Bayliss: 3:26

Thanks, Nat. I'm so honored and privileged to be part of your growing tall poppies little family. It's really such a beautiful space that you create.

Dr Nat Green: 3:36

Thank you. And I know that you have so much knowledge and. Some pretty significant experiences that have shaped you and that you've grown through that I feel honored that you're gonna share with us today. So could we start with you maybe giving us any further information or an introduction of who you are and what you do in the world that I might not have touched on yet?

Belinda Bayliss: 4:02

Thank you for the opportunity. So I'm Belinda, or, or Bel to my friends and I sort of answer to either and it's quite interesting. I have a number of nicknames and where you know me from will be a bit of an indicator of what name you know me by. I am currently working as psychologist, but I'm also a developer of online courses and working really passionately in the midlife women space. I'm a proud Gen X woman. How I, I identify myself because I feel like we're the generation that we sort of look at midlife and it's a bit cringey. So while I do work with women in midlife, I'm probably happier being known as a Gen X woman'cause I think that that holds a whole other element of there. So that work is, is really passionate and. I've always been involved in some way or another in sort of the space of change. So early on I was a high school teacher. I moved across to being a guidance officer because the, the things I saw in my classrooms weren't to do with the way I was educating. So much as what was happening for these young people in their lives. And that led me to be psychologist. And eventually I worked across different parts and it's always been that developmental lifespan. So I think that moving into, working in that, that midlife transition point, which it definitely is, is probably just a proper revolution of, my career. So it definitely sits in there. And I think part of my special interest in it is that. I was actually diagnosed with cancer at 26 and one of the side effects of that, it, it was a, a woman's cancer and one of the side of side effects of that was sort of loss of fertility and moving into medical menopause with no information. No support. There was no preparation for it. It was really just, this is the treatment that you need and the side effect will be that you'll probably lose your fertility or your ability to have children. But there was nothing about all of the other side effects that come with sort of medical menopause or now we know about perimenopause and menopause. And all it was was your periods are gonna stop. So in some ways I'm ahead of the game because I've had. 20 odd years now to work it out and 20 years without HRT to work it out, which is a whole other story again.

Dr Nat Green: 6:17

So really at a time when it would've been extremely unusual for a 26-year-old to have cancer, no information, very little known, particularly without the HRT, it was like. You are right. You'd be the trailblazer. You navigate it and teach us pretty much.

Belinda Bayliss: 6:39

Yeah. And at no point was HRT or any version of it suggested it didn't even enter a conversation. The closest thing was I was 26. Part of the reason I was so aware that something was amiss with my body is that we were trying for a second baby. And so I was really in tune with what was happening. So when something wasn't quite right, I was very across it. But in that space of all of the treatment and things that went on, they decided that the way they would manage me going ahead was to put me on the contraceptive pill.

Dr Nat Green: 7:10

Right.

Belinda Bayliss: 7:12

So that was what they considered to be sufficient hormones. But if you take the mind of somebody who's just been through this experience and now, oh, by the way, you can't have any more kids, oh, and by the way, you need to be on the contraceptive pill. It really was such a tricky space.

Dr Nat Green: 7:27

Oh, absolutely. So in there, not only the, the shock and the trauma of having cancer, but then that grief of. And you're telling me I can't have any more children.

Belinda Bayliss: 7:41

Yeah, and it was a really huge grief piece. I am the eldest of five children and my, my family are fairly prolific breeders. I just have to say, yeah, so all of my siblings have very large, modern families. And for me it was really, that was quite a tricky piece because as my siblings continued and being the eldest, as my siblings continued to have kids being able to sort of lean into their joy. But know, my own space of, loss was always tricky.

Dr Nat Green: 8:14

Yeah, that would've been very confronting to see them continuing to have their children and And move on.

Belinda Bayliss: 8:20

Talking six and seven children, so we're talking large families.

Dr Nat Green: 8:24

Yeah. So you're not talking one or two other kids. So you would then, as you said, share in their joy and be. You know, excited for them and happy, but also navigating your own path of grief and loss of what you couldn't have as far as the life you'd dreamt for yourself.

Belinda Bayliss: 8:43

Absolutely, absolutely. And, and I think there's that piece for my son too, being an only child. Whereas that space might have been, you know, watching his cousins. So his cousins were very much like his siblings, but there was always. They were really cousins. And you know, it has afforded me a stronger relationship with some of my nieces and nephews where I've had space and capacity to be sort of that aunt. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it's not quite the same as, as actually, you know, being that being a parent and I mean, there has been another bit of joy, you know my second marriage brought two wonderful young men into my life as well, so I have three now. But two are imported, so. Mm. But you know, it, it, it really is a space that has been tricky. And at 30 I started getting hot flushes.

Dr Nat Green: 9:32

Gosh.

Belinda Bayliss: 9:33

Just that I, I have this real clarity moment of standing in front of classroom in Sydney with all of my young, lovely students. It was the, the most beautiful school to teach at. But they're all there in their blazers and they've got their scarfs on, and I'm there in like a short sleeve shirt just pulling at it, going, is it hot in here girls. And they're like, miss, it's not. Yeah, I can see that. And just, you know, that, that was at 30, so that wasn't managed by HRT until my early fifties when I found a doctor who actually would look into my eligibility for HRT because the generic standard line that you get is you've had cancer. You're not eligible. And I think that that was pretty much along the way. But no, without that knowing that while my body was in that menopause state, it was years before my mind moved there. That was never made clear.

Dr Nat Green: 10:30

No. And you wouldn't have had people to talk to about that because they wouldn't have understood it. Your peers would've been like, what are you talking about?

Belinda Bayliss: 10:39

Well, yeah, and what were you talking about? I don't know. I can't find the words. You know that that's the forgetfulness that goes in, comes into,

Dr Nat Green: 10:45

oh, yes, I know that. Well,

Belinda Bayliss: 10:47

the tip of the tongue, like I know the word, or I know your name and I can't. Find it and sort of mood swings and not just hot flashes. There's so much more to this piece than just that. The curious thing I found is that after moving on to HRT, I used to call my feet my old women's feet. So I'd get up in the morning and it would be like walking on like a bed of nails. It was so, uncomfortable And at the stage I was doing triathlons quite, you know, very much into them. And, and it just came down to you've just got runner's feet. And I was really curious'cause I went onto HRT and somewhere along the way I've realized I can get out of bed fine in the morning like nothing else has really changed. Yeah, but just the impact it has because estrogen receptors are all over our body. They influence so many things. It's not just the end of our periods. There's so many things in this space that impact us, and sometimes we don't know we've got something until it goes away.

Dr Nat Green: 11:45

Yes, exactly.

Belinda Bayliss: 11:47

Yeah, and I think it, there's a, it's a sense of gratitude for me in that I can come into this with two lots of knowledge. One, what it is to be sort of a, a perimenopausal, menopausal woman, but also what it's like to have that experience out of sync with your cohort. And it's left me in some ways ahead and more curious and mindful about it than, than others who may not have had the same experience.

Dr Nat Green: 12:12

Yeah. And I think, you know what? What a gift that you've got through the awful experience that you had in some ways. But of course it didn't always feel like that.

Belinda Bayliss: 12:24

No, no. Although it, it's quite interesting when we talk about trauma and post-traumatic growth. I was very adamant that and, and. This is no offense to anyone. This was my mantra.

Dr Nat Green: 12:38

Absolutely.

Belinda Bayliss: 12:39

And it, it was going to be more than a rogue cell that took me out. Like, if I'm going out, it's gonna be a bus. Like it's gonna be big. I'm not being taken out by a dodgy cell. And I think that that stayed very much with me and, and you know, through treatment.'cause I had eight months of extensive treatment. I did lose all my hair. I gained weight on the steroids. I ended up with like moon face and, and all those. Fun things, but I had this mantra and it was like, lose a little hair, gain a lot of life. So that it was those type of things of just trying to picture the future and stay in the future. That really, I think was very beneficial to my treatment regime.

Dr Nat Green: 13:16

Yeah, so having that curious mind with very little information and going out and seeking that for self. But also that mantra and that grit and determination that it wasn't gonna be this that did it. You were gonna keep moving forward and, and show everyone that. There were other things you could do.

Belinda Bayliss: 13:38

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, medically that had zero impact, I'm sure. But you know, psychologically it was, it was about being in the space and, making the most of the everyday. So for me, you know, we had this aging piece where people get to the next birth, then they're like, oh no, I'm this year older for me very much, it's, yay, I'm this year older. You know, there was. There was some point where there was no, none of us have it guaranteed, but mine was a little bit more iffy than, than a lot of people experience.

Dr Nat Green: 14:08

Absolutely. So with every year, with every birthday, it was this huge celebration for you. Oh, so yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So can you know, it's a while ago now, obviously when you were 26. Years have passed by.

Belinda Bayliss: 14:24

Yeah. I'm not 27. I know. I look it, but

Dr Nat Green: 14:27

maybe 28

Belinda Bayliss: 14:29

cheers.

Dr Nat Green: 14:30

No, no. I heard you say Gen X. I'm Gen X, so I know that I, I'm hearing you. And now that I know that every morning when I get up my feet is not something I have to put up with, I'm gonna look at my alternatives. So you've already helped me with a wealth of information and I know you've got more to come. So think back. Those few years ago, how did you initially cope when you were navigating this path? You weren't really sure here you were at 30 having hot flushes. Not really sure what was going on.

Belinda Bayliss: 15:06

Yeah, look, I think, I think early on, while I was curious, there wasn't a lot of information available. It was really just. Well, it's, I think my story is probably similar to any woman who's going through perimenopause, and that is, I wasn't really aware of everything that was going on and that it was linked to my hormones. But the second thing was, it was just to suck it up. This is what we do. It's like, oh, you're a little bit hot. That's okay. Don't wear a jumper or make sure you have a fan with you or, or, you know, those type of things. And I have really, I have memories of my nana who always had a a wet cloth with her. In the back of her neck, and it wasn't until I found myself in that space where, you know, this is, I, I'm just burning up from the inside. You know, I used to call them my power surges.

Dr Nat Green: 15:59

I like that.

Belinda Bayliss: 16:00

Yeah. So I used to talk about power surges. I've got this internal heating. That's amazing. It wasn't until sort of. I started being curious and exploring, but there's a really poignant moment and that was I, my bestie is a nurse and, and we are, we are breakfast people. So we were doing breakfast and I was saying something about starting to forget things. And I have this saying that if you, if you've ever heard me talk, it's, you know, I used to juggle, seven balls and be fine. And now I've got like three and two are on the ground. Like I can't. I love, I kind of seem to keep it together and I'm forgetting words and I'm sitting with clients whose story I know, you know, in the back of my head, but I can't bring their name up. Mm. Like it was those really horrible moments that are really, you start to. Second, guess what's happening cognitively.

Dr Nat Green: 16:54

Absolutely.

Belinda Bayliss: 16:54

And I described this to my friend and she's like, well, it's perimenopause. And I said, no, like I've been in menopause for years. And she said, your body might have been, but your brain's catching up. And it was just this light bulb moment of what, why hasn't anyone told me this? How was I not aware that there's this other piece? And I think I started exploring further there. I do remember going to a, a doctor who had a really long wait list who friends had seen with good results for HRT and going and seeing her. And the two things I walked away with was she said I probably wasn't in menopause because my husband wasn't ready to kick me out and my children didn't hate me, I thought was a really interesting concept

Dr Nat Green: 17:43

and that's nice of her.

Belinda Bayliss: 17:45

Doesn't that lean into how we see midlife? And also because I'd had cancer, there were no double blind studies to say that I could go onto HRT and I was just not eligible. Mm. So it was really a space of I just have to, you know, suck this up and put up with it and, and you put things in place, you wardrobe, you know, I've got a wardrobe of beautiful jackets that never get worn and, and those type of things just became my normal. And I think that going back. It wasn't until I started seeing those dribbles of perimenopause on social media started reading about things, seeing other women start to go through this and be that. I started like, I need to research this and find out more. And through that I was lucky enough to be able to find through the Australasian Menopause Society. I found a GP who has a special interest in this area. And I was able to see her and she basically indicated that my type of cancer doesn't actually put me at higher risk if I'm on HRT. My risk is the same as any other woman, which is incredibly low. And that I could start. And she was so lovely. I'd seen her in the morning and she rang me back that afternoon. And we made an appointment to, to start there. And, and I have to say it's been amazing and. Although I've got a hiccup at the moment in that my hot flushes are back, and I'm not sure why, because we know it's all a tested and tried piece and I can just say I really didn't miss them.

Dr Nat Green: 19:11

Oh, I bet. So how long ago did you start the HRT?

Belinda Bayliss: 19:17

I've probably been on it just under a year.

Dr Nat Green: 19:21

Okay. So when you started that HRT, what did you notice?

Belinda Bayliss: 19:26

I think. There were a couple of things and you know, excuse my overshare, but one was the hot flushes were gone. Mm-hmm. But two is I could sit on the couch with my husband, with his arms around me without going into this heat space, which I'd never really put the two together. And it was just lovely just to be able to sit next to him and just lean into him and not have to remove myself because it was too hot. Wow. And it was such a joyous piece for me.

Dr Nat Green: 19:54

Yeah, something that most people wouldn't even notice, but because you'd lived with it for so long anyway, that was a given that, oh, I can't do that.

Belinda Bayliss: 20:03

No, no. And I think, you know, other things like I have more flexibility in my shoulders. Frozen shoulder is a symptom of perimenopause that so many tens of thousands of women report.

Dr Nat Green: 20:14

And that's fascinating, isn't it?

Belinda Bayliss: 20:16

There's research into it. I found that I could think clearly again, like things didn't seem overwhelming all the time. We also know that the perimenopause, menopause space has an increasing in anxiety because estrogen in our brain is a calming hormone. And so when we are lacking, when we have that estrogen deficit happening, we can find that for some women, it's the first time that they've moved into anxiety. It might not have ever been a bit present for them before. Yeah. But all of a sudden it starts popping up. Or if we have a, a history of anxiety that it starts to show up again more regularly in the space.

Dr Nat Green: 20:51

Okay. So yeah, again, another light bulb moment and this wealth of information because really a lot of us have been brought up to just suck it up. Yeah, you're just at that age, you've just gotta move forward and that's just part of it. That's the next stage and the next stage. And we move through it and deal with it. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be like that. That's what you're telling us.

Belinda Bayliss: 21:17

And one of the things that we know is that the history of our, our line of, women, so our parents or our mothers and our grandmothers, they will indicate they're a really strong indicator of what menopause will be for. And perimenopause will be for each of us. But that information is often lost because it was never spoken about.

Dr Nat Green: 21:39

Isn't that interesting? And when you say that for me, my mum. Was diagnosed with cancer at 43. She certainly wasn't in perimenopause or menopause, so she too was forced into menopause, and I never had anyone to ask those things. And then she passed away when she was 51. So I've been navigating this myself because my beautiful sister. Was diagnosed with cancer and again, hadn't been menopausal as well, so I'm the only one who hasn't been forced into menopause through cancer. Yeah, so it's a very strange journey to be navigating when you don't have people to ask, and they didn't have told you anyway, probably back then.

Belinda Bayliss: 22:23

It's also, it's also a different journey because women who will naturally move into perimenopause, so the symptoms that come with the declining estrogen levels, they're sneaky. Like they are just, they're incremental. It's not like one day we wake up and we have no estrogen. They are incremental. So we see them sort of they sneak their way into your DM, so to speak. But sometimes it's not until they're gone, like my feet and my shoulders, I didn't even realize that they were part of my experience until all of a sudden it's like, oh, look at that. My, I can do my bra up, strap up really easily. And if we think about frozen shoulder for women and the lovely underwear that's been designed for us by probably men you know, that that space of having to reach backwards and, and do our bra up and if, if our shoulder isn't functioning fully, if we don't have that movement, it's actually starts to become life impacting. And not things that we can't get around. And, and women will work out ways. We're intelligent species, but it, it, it's that ease of which we do life that starts to become more questioned in that space. And for women who move into a medical menopause, it's pretty, you know. Almost drop off a cliff moment. Like it's just, it's there one day and, and it, it impact is quite, it's not noticing a, a hot flush every now and then. It's like, look here, we just opened the floodgates. Here they are. So even in that space, their information would probably be, you know, different to what your experiences are. Mm.

Dr Nat Green: 23:58

And I think it's because as awful as it's been, we get to thank people like you who have been through this. And taken the lessons, the learnings from the trauma and worked out ways that they can navigate that path for us and blaze a trail so that you can share that and educate us and change lives in ways that we would never have been able to. know Had you not walked that path, so thank you.

Belinda Bayliss: 24:33

Oh, no. And I, I appreciate that, but I also you know, I really, probably one of the things I would put forward is advocate for yourself in your own health space. So whether that's through something that's not right, you know, IE cancer, whether it's menopause, perimenopause, all of those things. If your, physician, your gp, whoever you're seeing isn't sort of providing you with things that align or that you think are accurate. Think get a second opinion and a third if you need. You know, if I'd have listened to that doctor who said that I was just totally ineligible for HRT, then without that sense of advocacy and agency that I went forward with, then I would still be sitting in that belief

Dr Nat Green: 25:18

and probably with a lot more anxiety and depression. Run thrown on top of that because you would've been, felt like you were stuck in this hole that you couldn't get yourself out of.

Belinda Bayliss: 25:30

Oh, it, it's debilitating. Yeah. The the recent, so Australia recently had a senate inquiry into perimenopause, menopause, post menopause, and it's really just the terminology. So perimenopause is any time leading up to the day, which is a one year anniversary from your last period. Like menopause is one day, then you are in post menopause.

Dr Nat Green: 25:56

Oh. So one day.

Belinda Bayliss: 25:58

One day. Because that, that's menopause. With menopause is the one year anniversary of your last period. And it's really tricky because as we move through that perimenopause space, what I know of it is that, you know, I, I'm really aware of some of the Facebook groups I'm on people, people like, I got to 354 days and then. Now I've gotta wait another year. Like, isn't it crazy? We just, we wanna, we wanna label it. Whereas if we see it more as a transition, we know that all of these things are in there. We started estrogen decline around our mid thirties. Okay, so the average age in, in Western society for perimenopause, just show showing up is early forties. And we see menopause or post menopause hitting around 51, 52 in Western cultures. It actually changes across cultures as well. There's some interesting research coming out about that as well.

Dr Nat Green: 26:49

Very interesting.

Belinda Bayliss: 26:50

some, some cultures will go into earlier and some will be, have it delayed from what we have as a Western experience.

Dr Nat Green: 26:56

I've officially had my one day of menopause. Yay. Very recently.

Belinda Bayliss: 27:01

We should have parties. We should celebrate this because this part of life comes with a whole heap of freedoms.

Dr Nat Green: 27:07

It does. It does. So I know that you've already, we've talked a bit about your cancer and what's happened, but I know that you also. Unfortunately have had a number of other cumulative traumas and additional traumas and adversity. Mm-hmm. So did you wanna share a little bit about whatever you feel comfortable with that?

Belinda Bayliss: 27:28

Yeah, I don't think any midlife woman gets here without their share of, of things that have happened to them. And, and so, you know, early on in, my sort of thirties I separated from my husband for a while and we ended up getting back together, but eventually divorcing. So that's always a tricky space that where am I now and what do I, what do I do? I think the really pinnacle one for me was I was involved in a business. That felt really aligned. And didn't end up being that way, so that culminated in the loss of our home and, and a business. And that's a, that's actually really big. That really, I think that probably in some ways shook me more than the cancer, simply because the cancer is something I had agency over and I could control. Whereas this business thing. It was, it was really felt very much outta my control what I could do. And I think in some ways that had a bigger impact in lots of ways.

Dr Nat Green: 28:25

Mm-hmm. So go back to that, that time. And I know it wasn't that long ago, and it's still, it can be still raw and painful, so. Yeah. What was going on for you then? What were the immediate like reactions and what strategies would you say that you used to help move forward through that?

Belinda Bayliss: 28:48

It's, it's really curious because I have done a lot of work on it, and then I've, when I reflect on it, I think the, the initial early part, there was a massive shame piece in there, so I had bought into a master franchise and the more. I found, the more I realized it, it wasn't what it was meant to be. I spent a lot of time trying to make it what I thought it needed to be. But the franchisee wasn't sorry, the franchisor, which I, people who owned it, let's go with that. They really didn't have that. They were very adamant in that this has worked before. And it'll work now despite the fact that the statistics and results and, and the lived experience was that it actually wasn't what it could or should have been. Mm-hmm. So there was a very big shame piece in there. I do remember a phone call with my accountant and she rang me and she said, Belinda, I'm looking at your books. What's going on? And I'm like, oh, you know, that thing I bought into, well, it, it's a dud. Like, and, just that I should have known better. I was already had my own business. I should have very much, this should have been different. This shouldn't have been my outcome. And I think that there's that denial piece that comes early in any space where you feel that sort of Yeah. But there was a shame piece in there as well, which I needed to, and I found that the more I spoke about it, the less that shame sat with me.

Dr Nat Green: 30:17

Yeah. Interesting. And I know that there's. A significant number of our listeners who run their own business or are business owners. And I also know, because I've spoken to a number of people who tune in on a regular basis, who have also experienced very similar things You know, we are business people. We do our due diligence. That's all part of it, and a lot of our identity. Let's face it is tied up with our work, our career, our business, what we do, and we put everything we have into that. And then when businesses fall by the wayside, or you know, as is happening more and more now at the moment, that there are so many small businesses closing down through no fault of the business owner themselves. Situations, there's circumstances that lead to that. But you beautifully articulated that you did your due diligence. You can only make decisions based on the information you have available, but it brings in this shame piece. Yeah, that was never yours or ours if we're in that situation to own, but we carry it with us.

Belinda Bayliss: 31:40

Yeah. And, and it's, it's really curious because these are people who are, you know, we, we talk about know, like, and trust. I knew them, I liked them and I trusted them. Mm-hmm. And it's interesting because the shame piece moved into, at some point an acceptance piece. Like this is how it's going to be. And I was, I was actually really fortunate in that, in my way out of that. Sort of financial business mess. I had some really amazing people support me. I chose a path out of it that was the best I could find that aligned with my values. Mm. I had a, my mantra through it was, you know, the only thing I'm likely to walk away with is my integrity. Mm. And that was And integrity. Yeah. Is huge. Yeah. Isn't it? I was, I was actually given an option to. Sell the region that I'd purchased onto someone else. Mm. And I just, in my heart, I couldn't do that. No. And whether you call that a poor business decision, because we did end up, you know, losing massive, we lost our home, we lost a whole heap of, you know, stuff that I didn't even know I had. We worked about half a million dollars. Didn't even know I had that. So there you go. But it, I needed to be able to sleep at night with the decisions that I made. And the piece has changed over the years, so there's been early shame, there's been acceptance, there's been some anger. How could these people do this for me? But there's also some compassion towards them because in some ways they were trying to do a similar thing that I was, which was to create a business to fix a, you know, find a solution to a problem and to grow. The difference was that when things got rough, they chose to throw a bunch of us out of the life raft. Mm. So that they could continue. So I think that was the difference between, I, at no point felt I could throw anyone out of the lifeboat so that my journey could keep going. Yeah. So there's a compassion piece in there and a, and a piece that comes with it that I didn't see them for who they were, but they have to live with who they are.

Dr Nat Green: 33:52

Exactly, and you might've lost a lot of things, but as you said, you kept that integrity and you made a choice that that was a decision you could make to not pass on more things to other people and then not sleep at night.'cause you'd feel guilty.

Belinda Bayliss: 34:12

Yeah. Yeah. I literally had a phone call with somebody. Where they'd ask me like, this person is interested. You just need to tell them it's doing well and it's doing this and it's doing this. None of that, none of which was true. And the only thing I could say to that person was, I think you really should look a bit closer and, and look at your numbers. I think you should look for, I think you should speak to lots of people. Mm-hmm. It's quite interesting because I've now view that alignment with my values and my integrity. That was actually a protective barrier for me. Yes. So I came out of it. Okay. Yes, there's, it's definitely has an impact. Like even today it's like, oh, why would I do that? I might just fail. So there's definitely that piece that still lives there. But at the same time, I'm really aware that other people who were involved in the same space, I ended up losing sort of psych registration and they've lost businesses and homes and. Relationships and marriages. Mm-hmm. So I'm not sure. I think my understanding is there's maybe two relationships that are still intact from the people I know in that space.

Dr Nat Green: 35:20

Oh my goodness.

Belinda Bayliss: 35:21

Because it's just, it's a lot of stress to carry.

Dr Nat Green: 35:24

Absolutely. So when you look back at that period, and again, you already had. Other trauma and other strategies to work through that. What were some of your biggest roadblocks or obstacles that you faced during that period?

Belinda Bayliss: 35:43

I think it, it, it was sort of the pride, ego shame piece. That was probably my biggest obstacle. I didn't, I didn't reach out for help when I could've. I didn't go into the space and look at. What I could have done differently earlier on. So there were people outside it. It was very kept in-house and that was encouraged that I only speak to the people who were in-house, of course. And you know, hindsight is beautiful, but in hindsight, reaching out and maybe seeking more support outside of. You know, my own little sphere there would've been helpful. Earlier when I did reach out, I had an amazing lawyer who supported me through it. And we went with an insolvency accountant as opposed to going legal. Okay. And he was amazing as well. He would, he became my barrier. So when I was getting some really interesting letters, I would get them and, and oh, and it just. Ring him and he'd say, it's fine, Belinda. Don't worry. I'll, I'll address this for you. You know, they need to come via me, not via you. And it was just, it was really lovely that there were people in the space. And it was really interesting'cause it was actually a lawyer who put me onto the insolvency accountant. So not the same lawyer, but a different lawyer. So there were people in the space who are willing to, to offer, you know, real wisdom and, and support and advice. And I think that if I could reflect on the piece and do anything differently, it might've been to reach out earlier.

Dr Nat Green: 37:13

Okay. So how did you find the strength to keep going when, when really it hit rock bottom, you lost so much. What helped you navigate that path?

Belinda Bayliss: 37:27

Again, I think there's a little bit of stubbornness in me. Oh, do you think? Never. I think it also comes back to a little bit of that I'm not gonna be taken out by a cell. It's gonna be something bigger than this. And it was really that. I think acceptance is so important that this is what's happening. Mm. But this defines part of who I am, not who I am. I am a business person without a doubt. And I'm a proud entrepreneur. I am a, you know. Kick ass. Gen X woman. I am a Mum, I am an aunt, I am a wife. I am a putting these all in the wrong order. Sorry to, you know, people above, but you know, there's no right order. I'm a daughter. My husband probably would've liked me to say wife first, but, you know, because he puts, well, he, he supported me through all this. So he really does deserve a whole lot of kudos in there. But I think that. We are so many versions of self, we are not a single self. And I think that's really powerful in the space. And, and like many people who, who move through trauma for me there was also a faith piece in this. So I re, I actually re, I didn't rediscover, I discovered sort of a stronger faith for me. And I think that was a really important part in the piece as well. I.

Dr Nat Green: 38:45

And it's interesting you say that because that is the one, if you were to say a golden thread through all the growing tall poppies interviews, the one common thing, there's lots of things that a lot of people have said have influenced'em, but that one thing that every single person has had is faith and. The episode last week with our beautiful friend Tatiana, talked about faith and spirituality and faith can be in anything, but it's having faith in yourself, but also something outside of ourselves. I.

Belinda Bayliss: 39:24

Yeah, without a doubt. I had always been, so I grew up in a Christian household. I did Sunday school and Sunday school camps and, and yeah, same. And that was a, that was a really lovely space for me. But as I grew, I didn't find the same resonance with church, and I didn't find that same resonance with some of the Christian teachings mm-hmm. Or the way I saw them enacted, I think. And I lent into a curiosity to Buddhism. Being a, a religion of compassion and non-attachment and right word, right deed, right action. Yeah. And in that space, I feel like I moved into that discovery and, and started attending my local temple and, and those things I think helped keep me on the right path. In fact further on, I went to work for another psychologist and it was it's a really toxic workspace, but the thing that really motivated me to leave was that the actions I was being asked to do in the space weren't aligning with how I see myself.

Dr Nat Green: 40:31

Interesting,

Belinda Bayliss: 40:31

as a good person, whether that's as a Buddhist, whether that's as someone with integrity, that that space of just needing to be really true to who I am is probably the most important piece. And whether we call it faith, Buddhism, spirituality, I think that is such a protective factor is having that self and, and knowing that you are true to what you believe.

Dr Nat Green: 40:53

Absolutely. So getting really clear on. What is important to you and your values? Yeah, values, identity. Faith in whatever works for you.'cause everyone's faith is gonna be different.

Belinda Bayliss: 41:10

Yeah. Yeah. And, and we certainly know through, through research and through lived experiences that in time of trauma we will often turn to faith. We need it. That consistent golden thread that you spoke about. So my experience was very similar to, you know, so many people's.

Dr Nat Green: 41:28

Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing. Being so openly vulnerable and sharing such significant periods in your life. So if you were to look at it, do you think there's any specific qualities or personal attributes that you would see as key for moving from trauma to post-traumatic growth? So you've talked about faith. Is there anything else?

Belinda Bayliss: 41:56

Well, I think, I think acceptance is so important. Mm. Even where it's painful. Yes. So accepting that these things have happened can be really painful. And it doesn't make them fair. Like, you know, fairness is, fairness is some, you know, fairytale thing. Yeah. That there's a whole heap that happens on this planet that isn't fair, that doesn't sit in justice. And I think if we. If we spend our time just trying to seek justice or to be equal or, or that type of thing, we can waste a lot of energy that we could use on healing or that we could use on moving forward. And I think that energy piece, where am I gonna put my time and my energy? I'm really aware after the, the business thing, there were quite a few people who continued to use their time and energy pursuing what they felt was some type of recompense or, or equality or, or that type of thing. And, and I saw horrendous health impacts for some people. As I said earlier, relationships broke down. A very dear close friend of mine. You know, through the stress from that has ended up with a, you know, really chronic impact health condition. And, and just such a, a generous human who was trying to do the best. So I think that if we can accept and accept that it's not fair.

Dr Nat Green: 43:21

Yeah. I think that you've, you've really highlighted something that I feel quite strongly about as well, that if we. Focus on. It's not fair. It can bring us all so undone because we know that fairness doesn't come into it. There's so much awful stuff that happens that isn't fair.

Belinda Bayliss: 43:43

But, but if we look at it, life isn't fair, but we deal with it every day. It's, it's how do we deal with it? So, exactly. If we, we've only gotta look at children who, you know, you give them two pancakes and one is bigger than the other. Like, that's not fair. That's not fair. Or if it's something they don't like, like. You know, people don't like Brussels sprouts. I think they get a bad rap. I like them, but it's, it's a very, it's a common one. Oh, they got more than me. I have to eat. I, you know, I got more than them. That's not fair. So if it's a pancake, having more is, is a benefit. If it's Brussels sprouts, having more is not, so there's never going to be fairness. If we can treat people as fairly as we can. And if we cannot get wrapped around the axles about whether it was fair or unfair, then we save that energy for what we wanna do going forward. We don't allow our life to be dictated by the poor behaviors of others.

Dr Nat Green: 44:37

Absolutely. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. And really it's about bringing it back to a choice that we have on how we choose to respond or react. But hopefully we're choosing to respond and we are navigating the path as best we can with the resources available to us at the time. Yeah. Some days will be more of a challenge. Other days it might be a little bit easier, particularly when we're in the depths of the trauma and moving out.

Belinda Bayliss: 45:08

Absolutely. And I think the other thing that sits really strongly in there is the, is the notion of power. Now, when I say power to people, people all get a little bit cringey because it's, it's not a word that we like. People will have power over us. And we have power over people. There's power over, there's power with, and then there's autonomous power. And so we can choose what we do with our power. We can choose to help others. We can choose to help ourselves. We can choose to make other people's lives worse if we use power the wrong way. But I think knowing that we have the power to get up in the morning and say, today's gonna be a good day. Mm-hmm. Or we can get up in the morning and say, I'm not gonna allow. To define me. Like these are things that we can do with the power that we hold for ourselves. And I think that's a vital part of the piece is realizing that, that we have the power, you know, even in the space of, of losing everything, I still have the power I. To be the person I see as nice, kind, and compassionate to hold my integrity to do what I could as close to my values in that space. That was the power that I held throughout the whole thing. They didn't take my power away. They didn't, you know, they didn't diminish it in every way. They just moved where I had to have it.

Dr Nat Green: 46:25

I think that is absolute one of the best gold nuggets I've ever heard, and I think. I'd love you to say that again for the people that are listening, because I know that a lot of people who listen to the podcast have had lots of different types of trauma, sexual abuse, childhood abuse, and I think that that is the, as I said, a gold nugget. If you can help them retain that power or give power where power. Yeah, can go appropriately.

Belinda Bayliss: 46:55

So power is incredibly important and we all have power over ourselves that autonomous power, and we get to dictate who gets that and who doesn't. We get to dictate where we put our energy into it, and while people may try and seal it, we only give them what we allow.

Dr Nat Green: 47:14

Mm. I love that so much. And I think that feeds beautifully into the area in which you are working now around trauma and midlife women.'cause we know you've already touched on that, that we don't get to, you know, as Gen Xers, we don't get to the age we're at now without. Numerous types of adversity and trauma happening in our life. So any other gold nuggets you'd like to share there?

Belinda Bayliss: 47:47

I, I think that one of the things I wanna say in, in the space of trauma, and it's not really trauma, but midlife gets called midlife crisis and my personal opinion is it's not a crisis, it's just got bad PR and bad. Bad marketing. I love that. Yes, there's, there's a whole heap of things that are more challenging, but there's a whole heap of things that it does give us. And one of the things we know is that it changes our level of estrogen in our brain, which means that there's that old saying that older women have less somethings to give, and you can put whatever words you want in there. So I'll keep, try and keep it, you know, I what you mean? Oh really? And part of that is what they're finding is because we have that estrogen is that compassionate hormone and the caring hormone. It's why women have sort of that maternal nature. Yeah. As it diminishes and we get older, we don't need to actively be in that caring role. We don't have generally infants and, and I know that there are women in midlife who do have little people, and it's gonna be a little bit more trying for them. But we also can lean into the wisdom that comes with being able to take a step back and see the bigger picture. We are no longer in the frontline as much. We, can move back. We can lean into our wisdom. We can lean into the freedom that comes by midlife. Most of us are more established in careers, more established financially. Yeah. Or we're established in our career and we're bored and we are changing. You know, there's, there's a whole thing, but we've got. More space to be able to do that. And I think in that space as well, when we look at trauma, I think it allows us a space to reflect on what we've lived through differently. Yes, I think there's value and, and, and space in that wisdom.

Dr Nat Green: 49:37

Mm, yes. Most definitely. So one more question. I always ask this near the end. Mm-hmm. What do you think your younger self would think of everything you've achieved?

Belinda Bayliss: 49:55

She probably wouldn't swear because I was, I was a very meek and mild young person. I was the penultimate people, pleasing Good girl. And until, until my cancer diagnosis, my life was sweet. You know, there was nothing in there that gave any rise to anything being tricky or difficult. And I think that if you would've told my younger self what I had lived through, that she'd be astounded that I've come out the other end. Okay. And I'd love to just let her know that guess what, you're gonna deal with it all and you're gonna flourish in that space because you just have this inbuilt something. And I wish we could define it, but yeah, it's, it is. I have, you know, I have, I've managed these things and I'm okay. Hey.

Dr Nat Green: 50:44

Mm. I love that. And she'd be most grateful to hear that. With all of the, the wisdom and knowledge and experiences that a Gen X person has to pass on and. To bring along with them.'cause we all still carry that younger version of ourself within us, don't we?

Belinda Bayliss: 51:07

Oh, absolutely. Nat I feel like Gen X women are we were the women who were told we could change the world. And now that we've all hit perimenopause and menopause, we are changing the world. Absolutely. You know, the, the amount of amazing women in this space who are doing the research and, bringing forward all the information. So I think that, I think we are very fortunate that. We, gen X women are around doing amazing things. Absolutely. Like your podcast and, and like, you know, showing women that life doesn't have to be the crisis. You know, we are no longer gonna be institutionalized with hysteria because we've hit menopause. Like, you know, thank goodness. I know. But that's our history.

Dr Nat Green: 51:47

Yeah, and, and it's not that long ago. That's the scary thing. No, and I mean, really when we reflect. Women of our age, things are so different. You know, some of us had mothers that did work. They were the first ones who were able to to work in other things that weren't just secretaries. Yeah, stay at home moms. We'd been able to do so many things and to have the knowledge and the ability to now be able to talk about. Perimenopause and menopause with the research and the information that is available to us, we can make such a big difference.

Belinda Bayliss: 52:29

Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much coming out about midlife health and, our links around things like osteoporosis, osteopenia, cardiac, dementia and that type of space and how we need to do things differently to have a long, healthy life, not just a long life.

Dr Nat Green: 52:48

Absolutely. So, Bel, as we move to wrapping this conversation up, where can our listeners find out more about you and find you online?

Belinda Bayliss: 52:58

So the best place to find me online. And, and I regularly post reels because they're quick and easy and I'm not lazy. I do things with ease. That's my new mantra. You can find me at Flourishing Beyond Limits, and that's both on Facebook and Instagram. There is a website on construction. It will be up ahead, but you'll find that out from my socials. And yeah, there's other things in the works. Again, if you're on my socials, you'll know first where those things are gonna be launching.

Dr Nat Green: 53:26

Excellent. And I would absolutely encourage all our listeners to head on over there, send you a dm. Absolutely. Or like your page and connect with you over there because you really, I love your reels. I love the wealth of information that you post, and I look forward to it every day. Wonder what I'll learn today.

Belinda Bayliss: 53:47

I'm just grateful that I found a space where I can serve and make a difference. I really wanna be the ripple effect that helps change lives.

Dr Nat Green: 53:54

Absolutely. And as you said, after having experienced menopause, medical, menopause so young, you had so many years to do the research and test things out for yourself to see what works, what doesn't work, and who better for us to learn from than someone who's walked that path with lived experience, as well as that. Absolutely the e

Belinda Bayliss: 54:19

well, look, I just wanna come back to midlife. It's not a crisis. Don't believe the hype.

Dr Nat Green: 54:25

I love this so much. Absolutely. Midlife isn't a crisis and you have the power.

Belinda Bayliss: 54:33

Absolutely.

Dr Nat Green: 54:34

Absolute gold. Thank you so much for chatting with us today, Bel it's been an absolute joy to have you on here.

Belinda Bayliss: 54:41

Oh, Nat I really appreciate you and I appreciate the experience and you know, I'm thankful that this might be helpful for someone who's listening.

Dr Nat Green: 54:49

I'm sure it will be. Thank you. Bye for now. Thank you for joining me in this episode of Growing Tall Poppies. It is my deepest hope that today's episode may have inspired and empowered you to step fully into your post-traumatic growth, so that you can have absolute clarity around who you are, what matters the most to you, and to assist you to release your negative emotions. And regulate your nervous system so you can fully thrive. New episodes are published every Tuesday, and I hope you'll continue to join us as we explore both the strategies and the personal qualities required to fully live a life of post-traumatic growth and to thrive. So if it feels aligned to you and really resonates. Then I invite you to hit Subscribe and it would mean the world to us if you could share this episode with others who you feel may benefit too. You may also find me on Instagram at Growing Tall Poppies and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green. Remember, every moment is an opportunity to look for the lessons. And to learn and increase your ability to live the life you desire and deserve. So for now, stay connected. Stay inspired. Stand tall like the tall poppy you are, and keep shining your light brightly in the world. Bye for now.