Growing Tall Poppies

Episode 47: Against All Odds: Colleen’s Challenging Journey to Thriving with MS, & the Healing Power of Faith & Support

• Dr Natalie Green • Season 2 • Episode 47

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In this powerful episode of Growing Tall Poppies, Dr. Nat Green is joined by Colleen Daniels and her husband, Kel, who share their incredible journey of resilience, trauma, and medical miracles. Colleen was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS) and faced a future with increasing disability.

What followed was a lot of research on Colleen's behalf and her backing herself, with Kel's support, to embark on a journey that took them across the world, from Australia to Russia, where advanced medical treatments provided hope and potential healing through Hematopoietic Stem Cell Transplant (HSCT).

Colleen and her husband recount their emotional and life-altering experiences, detailing the courage, determination, and support that led to Colleen’s miraculous recovery and the considerable halting of her MS progression. From navigating the challenges of international medical care to the trauma of an unexpected arrest, their story is one of perseverance, faith, and the incredible power of community.

In this episode, we explore:

  • The Impact of Trauma and Illness: Colleen’s battle with multiple sclerosis and the toll it took on her health.
  • Seeking Hope Abroad: How Colleen and her husband found advanced medical care in Russia, defying the odds of survival.
  • The Role of Support Networks: The power of family, friends, and strangers who rallied around Colleen in her time of need.
  • Facing Legal and Cultural Challenges: Kel’s experience with the language barrier and legal challenges in Russia.
  • Miraculous Healing: Colleen’s incredible recovery, from needing a wheelchair, to being close to death to regaining mobility.
  • Faith, Positivity, and Prayers: The transformative power of faith and positive energy throughout the healing process.
  • Lessons on Trauma and Healing: Insights on how support, determination, and faith play pivotal roles in overcoming trauma.

Tune in for an inspiring story of survival, recovery, and the importance of never giving up, no matter how impossible the odds may seem.

Key Takeaways:

  • Building a strong support system can make all the difference in overcoming trauma.
  • Medical miracles can happen, especially when combined with faith and perseverance.
  • Trauma can be overwhelming, but it's possible to regain control and move forward with the right mindset and tools.
  • Faith, whether spiritual or in human connections, can be a powerful catalyst for healing.

Connect with Colleen:

This episode is a profound reminder of the strength of the human spirit, and the miracles that can happen when we lean into community and faith, even with a daunting 5% expected survival rate.

If this episode resonates with you then I'd love for you to hit SUBSCRIBE so you can keep updated with each new episode as soon as it's released and we'd be most grateful if you would give us a RATING as well. You can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drnatgreen/ or on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrNatalieGreen

Intro and Outro music: Inspired Ambient by Playsound.

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be deemed or treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Dr Nat Green:

Welcome to the Growing Tall Poppies Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nat Green, and I'm so excited to have you join me as we discuss what it means to navigate your way through post traumatic growth and not just survive, thrive after trauma. Through our podcast, we will explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater purpose, self awareness, a deep inner peace through integrating the many years of knowledge and professional experience, as well as the wisdom of those who have experienced trauma firsthand. We will combine psychology, accelerated approaches, coaching and personal experience to assist you to learn, to grow and to thrive. I hope to empower you to create deeper awareness. and understanding and stronger connections with yourself and with others, whilst also paving the way for those who have experienced trauma and adversity to reduce their suffering and become the very best versions of themselves in order to thrive. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. I'm super excited today to bring you our next guest on the Growing Tall Poppies podcast. It's my absolute pleasure and privilege to welcome a wonderful lady who I've only just met. However, I'm so excited to have you also get to meet her today. She has faced considerable adversity and some very traumatic experiences and is a wonderful example of a tall poppy, constantly shining her light brightly despite everything and making a difference in the lives of so many. She's so generously offered to share her experiences and her many words of wisdom with us today. So let me introduce Colleen Daniels to you all. Welcome, Colleen. It's so great to have you here.

Colleen Daniels:

Thank you so much, Natalie. What a lovely introduction. I hope I'm worthy of it. I guess I could. Tell people a little about me or what I'm doing today, I guess. People tell me that I'm an advocate for other people. I have multiple sclerosis. I was diagnosed back in 1998. And today, I guess what I do is try to help those people, other people of course, with MS. And that's where my traumatic times in my life have led me. So, it's a path we're on and we travel it and this is kind of where it's led me today is to help others. Who are facing the condition that I face, that's about it really, that's kind of what I do.

Dr Nat Green:

Summed it up in a nutshell so beautifully and I know we got a chance to have a chat the other week and it was, you were just such an inspiration considering what you've lived with for so long, like 1998 is a long time to be living with such a significant chronic health condition. And I know that you're going to share the journey that you've taken with us because I know that that in itself, as you'll share, You're only talking about your journey and the impact it's had on you, that's all you can talk about. But it's also being paid forward so beautifully to so many people. Maybe we'll get you to start with, yeah, telling me a little bit about 1998, how things were prior to that, so we get a feel for what changed for you once you got that diagnosis.

Colleen Daniels:

Okay, yeah. Well, I guess I was a young woman. I was single at the time. I had just become single. Anyway, I have relationships and things go wrong. I was a single mum. I had three young children, but I was working full time. Life was good. I was happy, you know. I felt like I was In the right place for me, and I had a full time job. I was working, raising three children, doing all the things that young mums do. And, MS, Multiple Sclerosis, it's a disease. It's kind of sneaky and you don't know. It can sort of hide from you and you don't know you've got it. So for me, anyway, in my situation that I can speak of, I had little things that I just ignored. You know, like my hand would feel a bit numb. But it would go away And then it was like, Oh, that was a bit weird, but you just forget about those little things. I was extra tired, but I was a young mum, youngish, I was 40. I just accepted it, as being normal. Things like that were happening. What happened? All of a sudden, this Saturday morning, I woke up and couldn't walk properly. It's like my legs were just not responding the way they should. So, everything was just difficult and I was sort of hanging on to the walls and the furniture just to get to the bathroom, And, so that was really weird. But it faded away after a few days, like by the end, that was a Saturday morning, by the Tuesday, I was back at work with a limp, but I was back at work. So again, it was just like, that was really weird. What was that? I thought it was my body telling me to slow down. I was doing that. That was my reasoning to myself. Yeah, absolutely. Because everything was normal. Why should I expect anything strange? In my family history of anything strange that I might be looking out for. So long story short, it happened again and I went to the doctor. Ah, okay. Yes, and then a few other things and eventually was sent to a neurologist. They thought it might be a virus to start with and all that. Anyway, neurologist. An MRI, they find lesions on your brain, on, for me anyway, I only had one, and they said, well it's hardly multiple, but it looked like a very early stage of MS with your symptoms and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, so that's where it started. And, you know, that's hard. That's, traumatic in itself. Because suddenly your life isn't what you thought it was. Your future is taken away, isn't it?

Dr Nat Green:

And I, I totally get what you've just said, Colleen, that we have this ideal of how life's gonna be. You were already. Living a life a little differently to what you expected, being a single mum, working full time, raising three kids, already thinking it's normal to feel exhausted because you had so much going on. But the plan, or the trajectory, if you want to call it that, that you would have had in your mind for you, suddenly was going to change very much with the diagnosis of MS. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Colleen Daniels:

Yeah. It's kind of hard, I suppose, to explain, but I think we all kind of have a plan, like we're working towards. We've got dreams, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, we sort of think, well, one day I'm going to do this, and for me, my dream was to travel overseas, and, you think you're never going to be able to afford it, and then you've got kids, and so you've got to wait a while, and all of those things, so you've got all these things kind of on your back burner, or you might want to study something, something Got to do or just things like that you do have these sort of unformed plans in your mind and you're always working toward them like you might be saving a little bit thinking one day that'll build up and all those little things so but suddenly you're told you have an incurable disease that's going to disable you and that was what I was thrown you know and so that's really difficult and so you from knowing who you are and what you're about You don't know anything. It's like, what do I do now? So, that was how it was for me, anyway. Um, so yeah. Difficult.

Dr Nat Green:

so let's go back because I know, you know, quite a while ago, 1998, and so much has happened for you since then, but you've got this disease or illness that it's been diagnosed, and you know already that yes, it's degenerative, it's going to progress, and you're facing a different life to what you'd planned. What do you think, if you can recall, what were the key emotions or challenges that you faced with that initial diagnosis?

Colleen Daniels:

It's just the challenge of just not knowing what to do and trying to find, always. searching for something, something, there's got to be something and I think for multiple sclerosis, they don't even know what causes it. So that's a real challenge in your mind, just like, well, how on earth are they ever going to fix it? They don't even know how it starts. Nobody knows what causes it, where that little first thing, you know, like for most diseases, it'll be a. A bacteria, a bug, a virus or and that'll start something, but they can't find it with MS. They suspect some things, but they can't find it and they haven't proven anything. So

Dr Nat Green:

that uncertainty and I guess at the time wanting to know what you could do about it, but Almost not much hope for a cure back

Colleen Daniels:

then. No, and one of the things they tell you when you're diagnosed is that the medication they have is supposed to slow it down. Now this is just my opinion, and my opinion at the time. It has changed a bit now. But at the time I thought, well if they don't know how it starts, how do they know how to slow it down? Like it just didn't make any sense. And I was given like four brochures on different medication. They were all injectable. You'd have this needle and you'd have to inject yourself, which was not fun to think about or to do. And I had all this information about those, so I had to just pick one. That was like, go back home, read these brochures and come back and tell us which one you'd like to try. And none of them said they were any more than 30 percent effective. The effectiveness was based on the number of relapses, so episodes of different things that you might have. So they'd say they slowed down the episodes and none of that, I thought, how do they know that when it's so unpredictable? How can they measure that? So I was just very doubtful and, and this is silly, but at the time I told myself it doesn't make any sense to me and I don't want to do it. So I'm not doing it. I didn't.

Dr Nat Green:

And thankfully you have an inquisitive mind. And you weren't willing to just accept what was shoved in front of you and accept that was a given. So I know that you then had a long path to the journey you eventually chose to take. So tell us a little more about that because it's fascinating.

Colleen Daniels:

I guess we're always looking and you see it on the news. We have the internet now always telling us little bits of news and that, Oh, I think they've found this new cure or something, but it's always just. Something new to look at. It doesn't mean they found it, but there's always these things anyway. So this sort of happens all the time and we all get a bit on another one, but I did see, and on television, there was an episode, a show, a news type show about, a lady who'd been. overseas to have a procedure and it was a chemotherapy procedure and she was doing really well and this was for her MS of course and she'd been overseas to do this it involved chemotherapy they showed Before and after, and I thought, well gee, you know, she's doing better, a lot better, and so that was kind of the first thing, and then, I don't know, you just sort of, that was it, but I wasn't going to do anything about it, because, you know, I was very doubtful of everything, I thought, oh yeah, sure. Then I just saw more little bits about other people who'd done the same thing and you see it online and little bits in a newspaper or an article in a magazine. Things like that and they just seem to be popping up a lot. Probably because the internet and everything follows around doesn't it? You know, so it knows what I'm interested in. But it was happening and so I started to look into it myself. I found groups online and I found out that this procedure was called HSCT, and it's called, I can't pronounce it, it's hematopoietic, something like, stem cell transplant. That's what it's called. Okay. Hs. Ct. Yeah, so there's a lot of stuff about that online and I just joined different groups, you know, chat type groups and, but anyway, and then I was researching as well. Like I don't just take what people say, I'm looking at studies and that, that they'd done on it. So, yeah. Um, this sounds. Genuine, and people do, like, I could see that it didn't work for everybody. There were certainly stories that weren't so great. The larger percentage seemed to be pretty good. And so, long story short, after researching it and I started to speak to my husband about, you know, say, look, what do you think about this? And he was a bit, not, you know, a bit, Uh, questioning of it as well as you would be, and of course we'd have to, I'd have to go overseas to do it. Um, anyway, they do have trials here in Australia, but I did try to get into those. That was my first, actually I should say that my first attempt was to try to get into a trial because that would be much cheaper of course, and uh, much easier on the family and everything. But no, I didn't meet the criteria. Anyway, I was definitely looking overseas and what would be the, the best place, the safest. Place to do it. And looking at them all, for me, it was Russia. Because, and the reason I chose Russia, because over there it was a university hospital. So they had every specialist available. Um, they had all the experts, you know. And I thought, well this is good. That's a good, um, so I thought. And you stayed in hospital the whole time. You weren't leaving the hospital at all. Whereas other places you had to stay outside the hospital. And, I don't know, I just like to have if I needed somebody, I wanted them there, I didn't want to have to wait for them, after some time, you know, he did agree. Because everything that I found, I would flick off to him, email it to him and say, I have to read this. Then after a while he started to say, yeah, that does sound alright.

Dr Nat Green:

So

Colleen Daniels:

let's

Dr Nat Green:

go back a little bit. So you were a single mum with three kids and, and then, yeah, no, that's fine then. And I think because it's, because it's just how your life is now that, that your beautiful husband is part of that, we missed that little bit of the story that you were managing everything, you got the diagnosis and then somewhere in there, this beautiful man came into your life.

Colleen Daniels:

He did. And that's, oh gosh, I was 51, I think at the time. Yes. And it was a New Year's Eve, I was at home, an ad came on TV for some dating website, and I sort of, you know, ignored it, and, no, before New Year's Eve. And then on New Year's Eve. The ad came on again and I thought, cause I'm sitting home, I was thinking about going out and I'm going to go out and I got up and got dressed. I was about to go out and I thought, what am I going to do? I was just going to do when I get there, everyone's going to be there with other people. I'm going to be there on my own, you know, that's not too great. And, and I had picked up the phone to call a taxi. And I thought, nah. I put the phone down, went and put my pyjamas on, stayed home. But then that ad came on again. This is how it worked. That's sign! And I thought, yeah, well. And I thought, meh. I'll just, so I put this ad up, but I said I'm not looking for a relationship. I'd just like someone if I want to go to a movie or to a concert, I'd like to have someone to go with, And I saw my now husband's profile and I thought, because he was an ex federal policeman, and so I thought, yeah, sure. I thought it was all lies. And then, I don't know what happened. I think I said hello to a couple of chaps and one, one came back and said, not interested. And I'm not sure, I think my husband contacted me and I thought, Oh, okay, you're the one that I thought sounded like a big fibber. But we'll see. And, so basically from there, we chatted like just online for a little while and forth, and then we had a few phone calls, and the conversations went on for hours. And we got to the point where my husband said, well, do you want to go out? And I thought, yeah. Well, yeah, I'll meet you because I'm very safe, I'll meet you at this restaurant. Anyway, that all went wrong because it was like 40 something degrees that day, you know, I don't drive. So, anyway, so I end up calling him saying, where are you? We're nearly here. He came and picked me up. Anyway, but you know, and so we talked and talked and talked for ages to get served because we wouldn't shut up long after the order. And anyway, so that all went very quickly. So we just met. We met online. And then it moved on to we have a date and honestly it was about one week later he asked me to marry him and I said yes. Oh, how wonderful. And here we are, it's like, what is it, more than 15 years later now. Fantastic.

Dr Nat Green:

You were already living with your invisible or probably even visible condition by then.

Colleen Daniels:

Yes. That was, yes. So that's, something. The first night we met, I told him, you know, quite honestly, because I thought I actually like you. Yeah. I don't want to get hurt, so in my best interest, I thought, well if he's going to run away, I'll give him the chance, and so before the night finished, I said, look, I've got to tell you something, I have multiple sclerosis, and he said, everybody's got something, and I thought, oh, I like that answer, and yeah, and so that was a plus. And, he told me he has diabetes and I, quite honestly, I don't know whether I'd ever told him this, but I thought to myself, I'll swap you, isn't that terrible? But I did, I, no condition is good, but at the time I, well, you know, I could end up disabled, so, that's a terrible thing to think, but I did. Yeah. Um, fleetingly there. But, anyway, a week later he asked me to marry him and so within six months of meeting we were married. And here we are, still.

Dr Nat Green:

So 15 years later, but you'd continued to research, you were getting really, really interested in being part of a study. You weren't suitable for a trial here. So you thought. I want to go to Russia and that's when things really ramp up and, and the adversity becomes trauma, doesn't it? So I know that now we've got even more of a story to tell and your husband Kel was a huge part of that. So we'll get him in at some point during our chat, but let's keep going to, you were ready for your trip to Russia.

Colleen Daniels:

Well, yes. I mean, well, that was quite, quite a process. I you have to get a visa. And, you have to book your flights and all that, and I'm smiling now, it's funny, it's a strange thing, like, after it all, I can smile, but it was dreadful at the time, I remember the tears, just trying to get organised to book our flights, it did become traumatic, because the visa situation, we had a problem with the people that were advising us. were advising us incorrectly and, oh, it's like, well, hang on, I'm running out of time, you can only do it, um, I can't remember now, but it's like two months before or something like that. There's like, you can't even apply for your visa until a certain time. So, okay, you've got to do it. And then it's kind of a rush. Well, maybe it's not a rush, but you certainly feel like I was in a panic. I want to do this. I've got to get there. I need this visa. So, everything, if something goes wrong, there's major trauma, major trauma.

Dr Nat Green:

I would imagine. Yeah,

Colleen Daniels:

it's awful. But the tears and then I'm Asking for certain things and they're misunderstanding me and doing it wrong. But anyway, I should have gone through a different organization. I

Dr Nat Green:

know that now we live and learn. So can you tell me. If I would have seen you back then, what would I have noticed about you and the progression of the disease at that point?

Colleen Daniels:

That's the thing, and that is a huge thing. At that time, I had moved on. It's kind of a slow process. I was fine, honestly. When I met my husband in 2009, I was fine. So from 1998 to 2009, I was doing pretty good. We'd been married about five years. When things started, like I was working at a place that was, about a 20 minute walk from the train station. I used to walk to the station close to home. I'd get the train and walk from there up to where I was working. And it was about a 20 minute walk. Getting to the station and going to where it worked. And I noticed once I sort of got to work, I was like, Oh, I have to sit down, and I was just getting tired. I think, and then, so that was happening. And then it became like, okay, I'd need to rest after about 15 minutes. And then after about 10 minutes, and then it got five minutes and then. Eventually, so anyway, I had to stop work and everything. But by the time I got there, I was having, by the time I was heading to Russia, I was having trouble. Even if someone knocked at the door, it was like, I went into this major panic. It's like, Oh, I have to get up and get from the lounge to the door, and it was terrible. And then I'd get to that and all of this stuff, it's all memories and they come back. But you get to the door and there'd be somebody there. And I, And you'd say, Oh, come in. Because I couldn't stand up for too long. And they'd just want to chat. No, please, come in. Please. Hanging on, the door frame. Um, yeah, it was really hard. Really hard. So that's where I'd gotten to. Then I'd have days that were a bit better. And I had to plan everything I did. Everything. Just the house. We were putting some laundry away. I think, well, I'll carry it to the lounge, I can get to the lounge, put it down, and leave it there, and later on, I'll take that to the bedroom. I sort of do half and half. All of that sort of stuff, and I bring out the vacuum cleaner, well that was horrendous, but you know, that was quite a process, I'd bring it out, it would sit around for a day, a good day or two. And then I think, I'll try to vacuum now, and I'll just do this room. Yeah. So I only had little bits of time. So it had really gotten difficult. Life was really difficult. Hmm. I hated going anywhere. It was awful, like family things. And we'd be invited, of course, different things. And, of course, I wanted to go, but it was just It was difficult. A lot of effort

Dr Nat Green:

for everything by the sound of it was it was exhausting. And

Colleen Daniels:

I, I didn't want people to see either, so that's a horrible thing. But I didn't want to see, yeah. To know that I had deteriorated so much? Okay. Yeah. Anyway, and even silly thing, all these things in photos, I would push the walker out the way if I had a stick.'cause I went from using a stick. And the stick had been put away, and I'm in the photo also, but the stick, you couldn't see that. But that's what I did. And I'm sure other people do it.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, I would guarantee they do. Yeah, because it's very much in your face then and it's confronting and it's then, it's real, isn't it? And makes it real and then there's so much attached to that from an adjustment point of view.

Colleen Daniels:

And when I talk about it now, I do it with respect, a lot of respect for all the people out there who are living with MS, you know, I just need to say that. Definitely. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah, it's certainly been a very big journey. So then we get to the point where you finally got everything sorted and you're ready to go to Russia and Kel and, you. Get ready to go on that venture.

Colleen Daniels:

Yes. So we have our flights booked and everything and that was great We go to the airport a bit nervous and excited excited nervous, But I mean, I was glad so glad the time had come this was the day, Okay, we're really doing it, and off we go and we got on the plane and we arrived in Moscow and I think I saw something online and it was talking about a flight that had been, had a terrorist, and I'm reading about it. That was our flight. It was the flight that we were on.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh my goodness. From Sydney

Colleen Daniels:

to Moscow. Well, from Sydney to Abu Dhabi. Anyway, there were terrorists. trying to board our flight. And luckily, customs had, noticed or detected that their luggage was overweight. And it was overweight because they had, explosives packed in a meat mincer. Yes. So, we were very, very fortunate that that was picked up. Yeah, the federal police were called in and those two terrorists were hauled off, so. But, we might not have even made it. We might not be here at all because of that. So, so that was the first thing and we, we thought, well, thank goodness. And that's the bad luck out of the way, Yeah, so you thought? Yeah. Well, it was kind of a comforting thing in a weird way. It was like, oh well, that's that. Good and here we are. And then I had to go, they have, you have to do all sorts of testing when you arrive. And since I'm in the hospital and. You have to be fit enough to undergo the chemotherapy. Kind of a final thing. And before they'll treat you and so I passed all that testing. And that was, a big relief because what would you have if they don't find something that I don't know about?

Kel Daniels:

Yeah.

Colleen Daniels:

So I was all good. And and I underwent the testing. And then you start the procedure. the chemotherapy For me, it was, I thought it was actually okay. I mean, I felt nauseous and things like that. There would be probably normal things that happen when you undergo chemotherapy, normal reactions to that procedure. A little bit unpleasant in, in parts. Yeah, but I know I did quite well and I was feeling quite well. I was actually getting up. I felt like I was walking better. Even. Oh, okay. Quickly, So, that was strange, but, because you get steroids at some part, and maybe it was, the steroids helping me and that's a thing too for me, like, I, I know a lot of other people that want to know exactly how it works and what they're doing, and All of the technical stuff, I really, I wasn't so concerned about that. I was just like, this seems to work, do what you gotta, oh, you've got to stick needles, you've got to put chemotherapy

Dr Nat Green:

here. So you, you put your faith and trust in them, that it had worked for others and you were willing to take that chance.

Colleen Daniels:

Yeah, like, I, they know what they're doing. These guys are the experts. I don't know anything, and I would never even try to know, I mean, quite honestly, it's too much, it does my head in quite honestly, reading all of that technical stuff, it's too much, so if they know what they're doing, I'm happy with that, and I was willing for them to do whatever they had to do. So I just went through it. So yeah, so I had the chemotherapy and they take it. When they say this, they do talk, it's a stem cell therapy. They call it hematopoietic stem cell therapy. Stem cells are your stem cells. So that's something that I guess people might be curious. they take your own stem cells and they do that by way of. Rhesus or something. Anyway, it's similar to what they do for, dialysis. Okay. Issues. Yeah. Mm hmm. So it's similar to that, but what they're doing is taking your stem cells. They take your stem cells, they put them on ice, and then you undergo the chemotherapy. The chemotherapy wipes out your immune system, that's the whole idea of it because your immune system's attacking, yeah, and so they get rid of it, give you your stem cells back, help your immune system grow and rebuild itself. And so that's the idea of the procedure anyway, it gives you a new immune system which won't attack you. Yes, okay. That's the idea of it. And then because your immune system is not great, it's rebuilding. It's like a little baby. They put you into isolation. This is in Russia. That's how they do it. Where you're in a very protected hygienic space, and everything was going great. I was fine. I was sending messages to my husband and, cause I couldn't have any visitors or anything at that stage. So we were sort of in contact, and even with my children and friends, I was like, Hi, here I am in Russia, and I'm doing great, and everything. And then all of a sudden, I woke up one morning, and I just didn't feel great. And I went to have a shower, and it was oh it's too hard. So I didn't, so I went back to bed. And I asked the nurse, could you give me a bed bath. And she said, what, what's wrong? And. That was it really. Next thing, I had nurses coming from everywhere, taking my temperature. And, then, all I really remember is being wheeled off. And, the, I think it was the doctor saying to me, We're taking you to intensive care. And I'm like, why? I just feel a bit off? Yeah, that's really silly. But I just thought, give me a tablet or something, I'll be fine. and Then I, the very last thing I remember about being wheeled off is the, was a male nurse, and he said to me, Are you having troublebreathing? And I remember thinking, Oh yeah, having trouble breathing. I forgot to think about that. Yeah. And I just said, yeah, yeah. And it was kind of really weird because I knew I was having trouble breathing, but I hadn't really, I don't know, unless he asked me, yeah, it's kind of weird. And that was it. And that was it. That's where my husband comes into the story.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah, then we know a lot more happened. So did you want to get Kel in now? I do. Okay. And now we're very fortunate to have Kel, Colleen's husband, come in and join us for the second part of the story where we really will go through what happened and the significant trauma that they've faced to get to the point they are today. So welcome, Kel. thank you I'll let you take over from here. So Colleen's been wheeled off to intensive care, not really aware of anything that's going on. What happened for you?

Kel Daniels:

Well, I was living in a hotel called the Vega, and that's probably 20 to 30 minutes away from the hospital where Colleen was. And I received a call and they basically summoned me to the hospital. So yeah, I arrived at the hospital to see Colleen, sort of like, Being rolled into the intensive care unit and, I was basically consoled by Dr. Fedorenko, who's the major doctor there, and he said, Oh, it's going to be fine, you know, like Uh, she'll probably spend three to five days and she'll be up and about and I said, well, what seems to be the problem? He said, Oh, she's showing the early signs of pneumonia. And I thought, Oh, well, that doesn't sound too good because she's just been, through a procedure where really she's trying to recover from, not having any stem cells. She didn't have an immune system. So, therefore I thought, well, she's going to have problems fighting this off. But he, he said, well, you know, everything will be fine, we've got the best specialists here, which they did do. And after, so I was with her at the time, she was pretty lucid, and then probably two days after that, I could see that she was declining and that she was getting worse. And about two days after that, I arrived at the hospital, and I could see that she was just totally out of it. And, basically a couple of alarms went off and I was sort of ushered or, you know, told to leave the intensive care unit. And I was like, this can't be good, so I stood at the door and watched. And as I was watching, I saw them rolling the defibrillator and I thought, well, this isn't good at all. So, I sort of left when they were attaching everything to her. And, yeah, I was probably outside for about. 45 minutes, something like that. When basically one of the doctors came out, it wasn't Dr. Peterenko and over there, a lot of the, even the doctors, a lot of them speak broken English, like not full on English. So they're a bit hard to understand. Yeah, so anyway, she ended up in the intensive care unit and then she ended up on drips, monitors. Intravenous feed, she was just wired up and I was like, this is a worry, you know? So I was sort of like, it's like a bedside vigil then. And, my visa was running out and so was Colleen's I was staying at the vaga, like we had a visa for 30 days. And, yeah, so our time was running out and she was in the care unit, I think something like 18 days.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh my goodness. A

Kel Daniels:

bedside vigil. You know, it was pretty horrific what I was witnessing, but I was there early hours of the morning till late at night holding her hand. She wasn't conscious at all. You know, she was, she had a tracheotomy, so she had a, that in her throat to breathe and I spent my days basically stressed, but, trying to, console Colleen, talk to her. I was just hopeful that she knew I was there, hold her hand. Even sing karaoke to her from the computer. So we were there. That's dedication. Well, well, that was ironic because, even the nurses joined in. So a few of them knew Elvis and things like that. So, they were very caring people. So, you know, they joined in the karaoke and that type of thing. But Colleen spent 18 days in the intensive care unit. But during that time, our visas had run out. And there was a, an Irishman there and his wife was undergoing the same procedure and he heard that I was having a few problems and he said book a hotel under my name and we'll use our visas I said, I'll put it on my card. And he said, no, no, I'll put it on my card. So yeah, this person that I'd only met over there was offering to do this for me. He said, if you put it on your card, the authorities will know. And they're very strict over there on their laws.

Dr Nat Green:

They certainly are.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, the time came where our visas ran out. The good doctor said to me, maybe you should return to Australia. I said, look, I can't do that. My wife's in intensive care. I said, I know that she's got a 5 percent chance of survival. I said, I'm not going. And then he said, he deliberated with the hospital and the hospital said, well, basically he can move in here. So I lived under their shelter and in one of their rooms, well firstly it was Colleen's room, she didn't know I was living there. Because she was out of it of course. And then when she came back into her room when she was, after 18 days in the ICU they moved me into another room. She didn't know I was there. Because she's going, Oh, you know, what about our visas? I didn't want to worry her. Like, and she was writing things down because she couldn't talk at all. Even after coming out of the intensive care unit, she, we were communicating through, through writing So I knew that there could be problems, but I was more worried about Colleen. I wasn't worried about me. So I was living in a hostel in the end, Colleen knew that I was living there. I'd just get up in the morning and go and have breakfast with her. Leave her room when she, at midnight, when she'd gone to sleep then get up again the same day and repeat the same procedure, after a while we'd go into physio together. I was giving her wedgies, picking her up, like, Oh, why do I have to do all this? Because she was exhausted and I understood. But I said, because if you don't, we might as well take out citizenship here, you need to work hard now. And I said, I'm sorry, but she didn't really understand. She was very vague. Yeah. So anyway, we spent that time there and yeah, we did a lot of things together. We were there for nearly three months. But as time went by, she sort of got a bit of. Strength back. Her arms got strength back. She couldn't really sit up. She was still being assisted with the breathing. And the doctor said, well, you know what, she can probably leave soon. Okay, so then I had to communicate with the travel agency through our daughter, Emily. She was a travel agent. She was basically talking to them and deferring our flights and doing all this stuff for us. So it was amazing. And then we actually came time to leave, but I couldn't leave because our visas had expired. So we didn't have visas to leave. So then I had to throw my hands up and say, well, here I am. And I was driven to a police station somewhere in the proximity of Moscow by one of the employees of the hospital. His name was Alexei and there was a Dr. Alexei there as well. I thought, well, I'm going to be driven to the police station by Alexei. Who's the doctor there that'll be good, you know. So I meet this guy six o'clock in the morning in the foyer of the hospital and I said, mate, you're not Alexi and he's gone. Yeah, my name's Alexi. Well, Alexi's like John over there. Every second person's name is Alexi. So off I go to the courts and I get charged at the police station, basically arrested, fingerprinted, photographed and all that type of thing. And, then I'm sort of conveyed to the court. I'm sitting outside the court and it was, that was a bit traumatic because I had never been in a Russian court, although I've been in other courts, not a Russian court and everyone's speaking Russian, no one's speaking English. I've got an interpreter who I had trouble understanding, a translator. I'm there the whole day. And, I'm thinking we're not going to get heard, because it's nearly five o'clock and I said to this Alexi, I said, you know what? I said, I don't think we're going to get in today. So I'm going to end up in the gulag for the weekend because it was Friday. Oh no. They won't even do it for you before a judge. But anyway, he said, well, the court's close here like seven, eight o'clock at night. I said, well, he said, we'll get in. I'm like, okay. So eventually we did, but in the meantime, Colleen's worried she's in the hospital, she's not well, she's traumatized already, we both had moments of breakdown, where we basically were like cats on a hot tin roof, anything can trigger us. Me going and then Dr. Alexi walks into Colleen's room while I'm at the court. And she was thinking that Dr. Alexi is with me.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh,

Kel Daniels:

okay. The driver, Alexi, she's freaked out and broken down. I'm absolutely broken down. She's in tears. And he's like, oh, he didn't know what to do. Had to call the administration lady, Anastasia. She's lovely. To console Colleen. And then I end up coming back at 8. 30 at night. And we got our orders to leave Russia, but, we were fine. We were given 10 days to leave and we were banned from returning to Russia for five years.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, okay.

Kel Daniels:

So, yeah, so the laws are pretty strict over there. There wasn't too much compassion given to our plight. The doctor had to write a report on Colleens condition. So, so then the kind of. Long story short, Colleen had gotten to the stage where she could fly. I got a medical clearance from, Etihad.

Dr Nat Green:

Okay.

Kel Daniels:

So, we went to board a flight at one of the airports near Moscow, so, we're driven to the airport. We go to get on this flight. Colleen's let through immigration and customs straight away. I

Colleen Daniels:

didn't mention that I had, the reason I needed The clearance, just because I needed oxygen.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah, she

Colleen Daniels:

needed

Kel Daniels:

oxygen. So another

Dr Nat Green:

complicating factor that you're dealing with on top of the trauma of being arrested.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah. So I got to the gates and they actually held me up for like 20 minutes, half an hour. And I'm like, I've got an order from your court, My visa's expired, but here's the court order, blah, blah, blah. And then she had to go and see somebody else. And I'm like, oh no, Colleen's on the other side of the barrier in a wheelchair. I'm like, how are you going on? So eventually we got through, we boarded the flight, everything was fine. And like, yay, when we flew out of Moscow, we're in the air, we're on the way. Anyway, we got to Abu Dhabi. And we had, business class seats, so we had enough room and all the rest of it. And so anyway, we get to Abu Dhabi, we go into the business lounge, I sort of help Colleen, and she needed assistance to have things changed to do that. So I wheeled her into the disabled, you know, toilets and did things in there to make sure that she was okay. Went to board this flight, the guy, the attendant came up because we had wheelchair assistance. The attendant came up from Etihad Airways and we wheeled Colleen down the boarding gate and then we were sort of like third in line and the guy that was in control there, he said, go and stand over there. And I'm like, what do you mean stand over there? He said, no, go and stand over there. He didn't give us a reason. I'm like standing there watching all these people go through. And I'm like, what's going on? So we got to the last half a dozen people. I went back and I said, look, what's, what's going on? Because, we should have boarded this flight, just spent three months in Russia, through an ordeal. And you're not letting us board this flight. I mean, oh, what else can go wrong? Anyway, he said, oh, your wife needed. Oxygen. I said, yes, I've got a medical certificate requesting oxygen and it's been okayed by your airline. I suggest you get a supervisor here. Because at that stage I was that irate. But I've taken deep breaths trying to control myself. Anyway, he came back with a supervisor and the supervisor basically, I gave him the certificate, gave him a big folder that I compiled. And Colleen's sitting there, and she's, not in a good state. And he basically spoke to this guy and said, get them on board and get them on board now. Well, we got on board that flight and when we took off, they couldn't do enough for us. And they were, all I could see was backsides because all these attendants. Well, I was like one aisle away from Colleen, there was a gap there opposite. And, like all those stewardesses were all over, Oh, what can we do for you? Royal treatment! Can we help you now? Yeah, so. Anyway, needless to say. She was on oxygen all the way back, but I had a camera on top of the plane. It was one of those flights where you can see over the top of the plane.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah.

Kel Daniels:

And I didn't really sleep on the way over there, maybe one hour in 15 hours. But on the way back, when we got on the connecting flight from Abu Dhabi to Sydney, I crashed for six hours. And I wake up to see the Harbour Bridge. I was just cheering because we were circling ready to land and it was just amazing. And, by the time we landed, it was such a relief. We got a system off the aircraft and we'd actually arranged for a hire car to pick us up, in Sydney and drive us to the airport they were waiting for us when we returned to, and they knew the story because, we kept deferring the hire car date because, it was supposed to be three months earlier. And anyway, we went down in like a Ford or something like that, sedan. And when we got to the airport, Colleen's daughters were there, my daughters, and they're all waiting there and like, yay, you know. But when we walked outside, the hire car supplied a stretched limo. So here's this, stretch limousine. And the guy knew our story. And he said, where do you want to go? I said, we've got to go directly. To the hospital. Colleen had to go be admitted mm-hmm. So he drove us directly to Gosford Hospital. He was in communication with the owner of the hire car company. He'd gone to emergency in Gosford Hospital, spoken to triage. She had a wheelchair ready to go. When we got there, she was waiting there with the wheelchair. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, the hospital and what the specialists did with Colleen in Russia was amazing because she had a 5 percent chance of survival. And it was a training hospital. so they had all the best specialists, their training, their interns. So she had the best care and even Colleen's, hematologist. After a couple of visits, here in Australia, said, I've read the report in detail. And if you were anywhere other than where you were, you wouldn't have got the care that you did. And you wouldn't be sitting here with us here today.

Dr Nat Green:

So when you heard that, what went through your minds? Well,

Kel Daniels:

I knew that, I thought, because I knew she only had a 5 percent chance of survival, but when we first went there, she sort of briefly went through the report, and she didn't really say anything, but it was only when she went through it in detail. But she realized the amount of effort that went into it. I mean, we brought drugs and things back, boxes of it from Russia that just you're not allowed to have in Australia, because they haven't been trialed here, but they've been tested in Russia and they're, these miracle cures. And yeah, it was just amazing. So it was good that she acknowledged that, because she could then. Pass it on. It was like, Colleen's hematologist here, he said, I'm a bit skeptical about you going before we left. He said, but I really want to monitor how you are and what you're like when you get back. Well, she basically hobbled in for the last appointment that we had prior to leaving. And then she just walked in unassisted when we got back and he was like, oh my God, he was like, Colleen will tell you her score as far as her disability went, but she was far improved. Yeah, he was just amazed by it. And now he heard our story and he was like, he told a number of people about what happened over there. I bet. One of his favorite stories. But, yeah. I mean, there's so many

Dr Nat Green:

layers, aren't there, to what you've been through. The medical journey itself, which. Has ended up, you know, miraculously improving things for you, but to also have to deal with the trauma of turning yourself in, being arrested, facing court in a foreign country where English is not really spoken very intermittently and broken only. Frightening.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah, it was, but I'm an ex federal policeman, so I wasn't real worried about the court system. Yeah. But I was more worried about the broken English and me not being understood and me not understanding them. Yes. Because basically I was told that they'd just check my passport, because the hospital supplied these reports, that there was not going to be any real questioning. But when I got there, that wasn't totally true. It was like, why did you come here? When did you come here? What was your reasons? Do you know the laws of Russia? Do you know that you've broken the law of Russia? Blah, blah, blah, So they cross examined me and put me through all that with a judge that. I couldn't understand, and I was speaking through a broken translator, broken English. Yeah. That was

Dr Nat Green:

very confronting. Yeah.

Kel Daniels:

But I was reasonably relaxed prior to going in, I was more worried about Colleen and Anastasia had rang me and said Colleen had broken down, and I think she got me to talk on the phone to you.

Colleen Daniels:

I don't remember. I'm pretty sure she did. Yeah,

Kel Daniels:

she got

Colleen Daniels:

me

Kel Daniels:

to talk on the phone and console Colleen, tell her I'm okay, everything's all right. She was lovely and she tried to help me out, she went to all her government agencies and everything else, tried to represent me, tried to meet me. Trying to make, handing myself in, trying to get a clearance, extending the visa, which just wasn't going to happen. Their laws are very absolute, But I was more worried about Colleen the whole time, and there were times there. One, one time there when I just said to her, you're coming home with me and you're going to be sitting beside me, even though she, she probably couldn't hear me

Dr Nat Green:

so let's go to, you came back here and then you started obviously recovering and settling back into it. So if you have a look now, Colleen, just share for our listeners where you are now. As a result of your treatment and everything, that risk that you took on yourself and their advanced medicine, where are you now compared to where you were before?

Colleen Daniels:

Well, I'm in a much better place, health wise. And ability wise, and I will just, for anyone who understands that if you've got MS, you get this score, the disability score from 1 to 10, and so 1 is the lowest and 10 is not good at all. I was a 6. 5, now 7 is wheelchair, so that's how close I was to wheelchair, full time wheelchair. And I'm now a 3, so like, I'm not cured, I still have issues, but. I'm much better than I was, and had I stayed here and not done anything, who knows? I honestly think I'd be bedridden today. I really do. That's what I felt. Because I was just worse every day. Anyway, I won't go there. But, that's how I felt at the time. It's like, because I remember we had a wheelchair in the garage. What used to be my mother's. But it was kind of given to me because, hey, I'm probably going to need it. And, yeah, and it's good that wheelchair's not there anymore. It's gone. You know, and so my life is totally different. And. And I'm still improving. Like, it's kind of crazy. It's been, how long now? What is it? Seven, nearly eight years. It'll be eight years this year. Yeah, eight years, just about. Yeah. So, and I still feel like I'm improving. There's little things, like, oh, that's better, I'm doing that better, or I'm walking for longer. And it's just, but I can do what a normal person Does pretty much there's still things I suppose I I have problems with balance. That's my main issue Okay is balance. So like I don't like I still don't like stairs very much And Uneven ground. Although i'm better with that now just everything's better. I'm better. I'm not cured. I'm a lot better

Dr Nat Green:

And I think that's the thing, isn't it? That as you said, and as you alluded to at the very beginning, there is no cure, but we can continue to be hopeful that they come up with other approaches and that other people who are going through what you have been through, don't have to go all the way to Russia to have that experience.

Kel Daniels:

Very expensive too. I

Dr Nat Green:

can only imagine. Especially having to spend so long.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah. Well, it was worth it. And the good thing, credit to the hospital. I thought, you know what? We are going to have to sell this house when we get back to pay for all this. But they wore that cost.

Colleen Daniels:

They

Kel Daniels:

wore it. All the, the procedure that Colleen went through, the extended, yeah. Supporting you at the court, translator. Supporting me at the court, translator, all those things was at the expense of the hospital. Oh

Dr Nat Green:

my goodness. That's amazing. What a gift.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah. And supplied us with all the drugs afterwards and supplied me with my diabetic medication while I was there. Wow.

Colleen Daniels:

So, you know, we kiss the ground to them, beautiful people.

Dr Nat Green:

Yes, absolutely. And to help you, but then to also safeguard you. While you were both over there to look after you and get you back here.

Colleen Daniels:

That's right. they got us here safely. I mean, the doctor had tears in his eyes the day we left, like it's an angel. He really is an angel on this earth.

Kel Daniels:

Very much a humanitarian. Yes. A lot of people have got these dark thoughts about Russia, but in every country you have good and not so good people.

Colleen Daniels:

Human beings and beautiful people.

Dr Nat Green:

Absolutely. If you look back now, would you say, and you might both answer it because you've both had significant trauma related to this from different perspectives, would you say there's any specific qualities or personal attributes that are key for helping people move through trauma?

Kel Daniels:

I think support more than anything else, and We had great support from, family, friends, and everybody in the hospital in Russia. We saw some, because the procedure should only take 30 days. You can imagine how many groups of people that I can remember that went through. Colleen was probably not in the state to remember. But I met people from all over the world and they'd all heard about it. They were looking forward to I run, like an update every day on what was happening with Colleen and it was like, prayers and thoughts go with you and just the overwhelming support that we had, people in the hospital, people out in the HSCT or MS community that were part of that group, like MS for Russia, everybody, hundreds of people, you know, it's the support that gets you through.

Dr Nat Green:

So building your own supportive community,

Colleen Daniels:

the beauty of that though, that kind of hits you, like you realize how many good, beautiful people there are that are absolutely caring for you and you feel it. And alongside that. For me afterwards was like a faith,

Kel Daniels:

you

Colleen Daniels:

know, a faith. I mean, if I had never believed, cause I know all of those prayers were going up for me. If I didn't believe before, I believe now, cause I didn't get better for no reason. I mean, yes, the doctors and that. Of course, we needed their knowledge and experience. But all those prayers that went up as well, they had to have helped. I just think they had to. It was all the positive

Kel Daniels:

thoughts. All

Colleen Daniels:

the positive. We

Kel Daniels:

call them our MS family and there's hundreds of them. In fact, one guy that I met in Russia, he's JP. He's from America. He's ex military and I'm ex. So we're both ex servicers.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. He's

Kel Daniels:

coming to stay with us in three weeks.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah. Isn't that fantastic? So again, it shows the power of community, the power of relationships, and that faith, that belief in something outside ourselves, which is what we know from a lot of the research and what I'm hearing over and over again when I'm interviewing guests on our podcast is that belief in something outside ourselves. And that faith, whether it's in a religion or whether it's in something. Who knows what it is and everyone will have their own faith, but I think you've absolutely nailed it. Support, community and faith. So yes, family for sure. And I think the other thing that I do want to highlight, I know that you run your own podcast, Colleen. So if you could share where people can find that, because I know that. I have a few friends that have MS and I know they will definitely be looking for this. And there'll be other people that are in our wider community that know someone with MS. So,

Colleen Daniels:

thank you very much.

Dr Nat Green:

What's your podcast called? It's

Colleen Daniels:

MSMS. The many stories of multiple sclerosis.

Dr Nat Green:

Excellent. So MSMS, the many stories of multiple sclerosis, and I'll put the link in the show notes. And yeah, I know that you definitely have a lot more still left to do and you are paying it forward so beautifully with the MS community. I think the work that you're doing is amazing and I'm so excited that you're going to live a very different life to the one that you may have lived had you not backed yourself.

Colleen Daniels:

Yeah, it's the gratitude. That's the thing like for me too. It's just the gratitude and because I'm still in that community, of course, the MS community and like I know there's a need there, a need for community itself, and connection. And for people to know that they're not alone, because it can be very isolating because you do become disabled. In most, well I won't say most, but in a lot of cases, when it's so different for everybody. That's the disease itself, but you can live quite well with it and some go downhill quite quickly with it as well. So, yeah, there's all of that.

Dr Nat Green:

Oh, you've shared so much, really, to have so vulnerably and openly both shared your experience, as confronting as it was, and I'm very grateful and I feel blessed and honoured that you were kind enough to share that, because I think that there's so much that we can learn.

Colleen Daniels:

Yeah, there's a lot, isn't it? So much. And when we came back, it was Difficult, I mean at the time.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah, well. Just settling back. Yeah, and she spent another month in hospital

Dr Nat Green:

another month once you got home. Yeah. Yeah,

Kel Daniels:

four months in total, something like that. Supposed to be a 30 day procedure.

Colleen Daniels:

That

Kel Daniels:

was hard. Yeah, that was hard. Because Colleen couldn't come home. After spent two weeks in Gosford Hospital, two weeks in rehabilitation, but I walked, I walked into a room in Gosford Hospital one day and She said, watch this, got up with a walker and started walking around the room and I'm like, how long has this been going on? I was just elated. It's like, now do it again. So I filmed it twice.

Dr Nat Green:

Fantastic.

Kel Daniels:

It was just spontaneous. Just that

Colleen Daniels:

morning. I I thought I could, and I thought I'm going to try this and I did it. And so I went, okay, yeah, because she wanted to help me. I said, no. No,

Dr Nat Green:

independence and that grit and determination shone through from the very beginning. Yes. Isn't it? Right through. That's the thread that's been very common through your story, that you never gave up. You didn't accept that what people suggested. Remember back at the beginning, you just, you go and choose which of these medications and you decided, no, you didn't want to just accept that. So that has continued, hasn't it?

Kel Daniels:

And no more MS medication at all.

Colleen Daniels:

No, nothing. None.

Kel Daniels:

She was on different drugs the whole time. Before we went, she was like a guinea pig on some of the drugs. Yeah, I was in trials. Tests, trials. Mmm. Yeah. Wow. Because I tried everything. Yeah, tried everything. Yeah.

Dr Nat Green:

That's amazing. And you made that very clear. That this is your story. It's not necessarily what would happen for other people. No. Well,

Kel Daniels:

there was a, the chances of what happened to Colleen, it's got the best safety record of all. The clinics that treat MS in Russia, and it's a 0. 02 death rate. you got more chance of dying from influenza in this country than what you had going through the procedure in Russia. So that's putting it in context. We were just the unlucky ones that went through that, but lucky that we was, that we did get through it and lucky that Colleen's improved and recovered from it all. I think

Colleen Daniels:

that's the thing though, I was facing a life I did not want, and I didn't, Oh, there's so much around it. There's so much around it that you think about

Kel Daniels:

and

Colleen Daniels:

Yeah, really difficult decision. It was a difficult decision, but I knew the risks. I knew the risk. I knew the possibility. You can never think it's going to happen to you. So that's another one. It can. It can. Absolutely. And you don't have to do anything to make that happen. It can just happen.

Kel Daniels:

Until it was at all worthwhile, yes. Yes.

Dr Nat Green:

And I think that's the clear message and you've summed it up beautifully, Colleen, that you were really willing to not accept a life that you didn't want and to do something about it as much as you could. You couldn't control the outcome, but you didn't want to accept that was how life could end up for you.

Colleen Daniels:

And can I say too that I was accepting when it went bad? I think I was, I remember having the thoughts, so, not nice to remember, but I remember I was making plans. We will fly on the plane back home. I was planning to tell, Kel, you know, he can divorce. I said, just divorce me. It's fine. He's like, put me in a home. As long as someone's looking after me, feeding me and stuff, I'll be fine.

Kel Daniels:

Don't worry about me. Thanks for having that thought after going

Colleen Daniels:

through all that.

Kel Daniels:

Yeah.

Colleen Daniels:

But I thought, what were you bringing home? I thought, nah.

Dr Nat Green:

Yeah, so all those things, of course, crossed your mind and I'm grateful that you have shared that because I think people need to know that This is the reality. Those thoughts are normal thoughts to have and we need to talk about it and not keep those things quiet.

Colleen Daniels:

No, but I was accepting, I mean, I took the chance, I never sort of put it on, anybody, you know, it was my choice to do it. I knew there was a risk. I didn't think it was anything bad was going to happen, but it did, but there are, so that's it, and so now I just got to deal with that, And, and I did think, Oh, well. Here I am, it's not, of course it wasn't what I wanted, I didn't want that at all. No. So I've been blessed, I do think I've been blessed to be where I am today. I'm blessed to have this man. This man, who went through it all, yes. He stood by me, and he's still here, and he doesn't mind when I spend hours doing a podcast.

Dr Nat Green:

Absolutely. So, luckily that ad came up on the TV multiple times and you took that chance on him. That's right. Even if you thought he was fibbing about everything. I did. And look, it was all true, wasn't it?

Kel Daniels:

Yeah, it was.

Dr Nat Green:

Well, thank you so much, both of you for coming on today. I'm really, really grateful that we've had the opportunity. Thank you. very

Kel Daniels:

much.

Dr Nat Green:

Thank you for joining me in this episode of Growing Tall Poppies. It is my deepest hope that today's episode may have inspired and empowered you to step fully into your post traumatic growth so that you can have absolute clarity around who you are, what matters the most to you, and to assist you to release your negative emotions and regulate your nervous system. So you can fully thrive. New episodes are published every Tuesday And I hope you'll continue to join us as we explore both the strategies and the personal qualities required to fully live a life of post traumatic growth and to thrive. So if it feels aligned to you and really resonates, then I invite you to hit subscribe and it would mean the world to us if you could share this episode with others who you feel may benefit, too. You may also find me on Instagram at growing tall poppies and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green. Remember, every moment is an opportunity to look for the lessons and to learn and increase your ability to live the life you desire and deserve. So for now, stay connected, stay inspired, stand tall like the tall poppy you are. and keep shining your light brightly in the world. Bye for now.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Dr Natalie Green

Host